To call out friend on 'body positivity' delusion?

[treesandflowers95]

My bestie (i'll call her 'J') and I have been friends since primary school. She's godmother to my DD and we almost see each other as sisters as friends.

J has always been a curvier girl but as we've gone through our 20s, she's steadily put on more and more weight. She's 5ft 2 and now a size 30. Over the last couple of years its been noticeable how much into the 'body positivity' movement shes got. Her socials are full of shared posts about it, and she'll often bring it up in conversation.

Its not something i've ever really made an issue of with her before as though it worries me for her, i've always been of the view that everybody's body is their own business.

However we were on a hen do a few weeks ago, and honestly it was a real eye opener to just how big she's got and the impact that's starting to have on her health. The first one for me was that she needed a seatbelt extender on the flight and she seemed to think it was hilarious. We stayed in a villa on the edge of a little area with a strip of bars and restaurants. It was 350yds (i put it into Google maps) and slightly downhill on the way there and uphill on the way back, but nothing major. J was struggling to keep up with us on the way there, and on the way back was having to stop at least once because she was so out of breath. Bear in mind this was a group of girls quite a few in heels etc so its not like we were sprinting, and shes sweating and bright red. Aside from that, even basic stuff round the villa like walking upstairs (it was over 3 floors) and she struggled climbing up and down the ladders in and out of the pool. I didnt say anything to her at the time but its played on my mind.

This weekend there were four of us (all close friends) who'd been on the hen do out for drinks in the pub. We were talking about the hen do and i can't remember how it came up, but she started talking about the walk back to the villa and how steep the hill was etc. I said to her something along the lines of 'Oh it wasn't that bad' to which she replied 'Are you joking, it was so steep!' and was basically trying to get the other girls to agree and I just left it.

A bit later in the conversation she was talking about some body positivity stuff and how its about how you look after yourself and not how much you weigh. I've bit my tongue at stuff like this loads of times, but this time i said 'I think that's true to an extent but there's a point where you can't argue that you're healthy'. She didn't look happy and said 'what are you saying?'. I basically said that the fact she thought that walk on holiday was so difficult that she should have struggled with it so much was worrying, and might suggest her health wasn't as good as she seems to think it is. The reality is (and I didn't say this to her) that she eats really badly and drinks quite a lot. She spends loads on hair, make up, nails, etc which she considers as looking after herself.

She got really frosty with me, and has been funny in texts since, not her usual self, so i know i've annoyed her.

Fully accept it may not have been the best way to bring it up especially in front of others (but it wasnt like it was strangers, we're all mates back to primary school) but i just felt like it wasn't a time where i could just say nothing in the moment.

So i guess question is AIBU to have brought this up with her, and any advice on how to handle things next.

That is really interesting @BeretRaspberry . What she is describing is essentially what I am doing, sort of resetting how I view food and learning not to eat if I am not hungry.
The scoop of ice cream example was definitely me, if there were biscuits/cake etc at work and I had one, this would lead to several, so I avoid sugary things and don't have one. Weirdly I find it far easier to not have one, than just have one IYSWIM ?
I do think being honest with yourself is essential. I use to kid myself that I had a 'big' appetite, what I actually meant was that I could physically eat very large portions, even when I was no longer hungry and past the point of being comfortably full. I actually rarely feel hungry now, even though I have naturally cut my calorie consumption by more than half, this might sound like a lot but my average daily intake was around the 3500 mark. 3500 sound's a lot, but is remarkably easy to hit without a great deal of effort depending on what you are eating and drinking. It was also a lot more than my body needed with a sedentary lifestyle.
I don't necessarily think of what I am doing as a 'diet', to me a diet is what someone like the speaker in your clip does when they want to shed a few pounds, a restrictive eating pattern. I prefer to look at my dietary changes as a way of making my life easier. Like @treesandflowers95 friend I was finding even simple day to day tasks, like putting on socks, going up stairs and walking even short distances, very hard work. That is not healthy.

@treesandflowers95 you sound lovely and its obvious you care about your friend. Like your friend I was in denial for a long time, not even denial really, I knew I was morbidly obese and I felt the impact of that every day. Very few people put 10 stone on over the course of a couple of months, it usually takes us a few years, and we grow to ( pardon the pun ! ) work around the weight gain both physically and mentally, we buy bigger clothes, take the lift, park closer, stop doing things that make us uncomfortable, blame it on hormones, genetics, biology, society etc. We make the jokes before others have the opportunity. And then one day you wake up and realise that the only person with any power to change the situation is yourself !

Interesting article here about the rise of eating disorders in Japan, including this quote: <The pressure to remain slim is even government-mandated, with 2008’s controversial “Metabo law” requiring those aged 40–75 to stay within certain waist measurements, or see their employers slapped with a fine.>

Fair enough to be privately worried, but unless she brings up being unhappy with her weight or wanting to discuss what you said before, I would (and I say this kindly) mind your own business. A topic to be avoided in future.

if you go on about it to her you risk her ending the friendship.

I imagine it's harder now to stay within the parameters that there's more Western food than before? I watched a programme on it, think it was where they took very overweight people to different countries to see how people ate. It was interesting.

As i've said, its up to her. I understand theres nothing i can do if she doesn't want help/support

No, supporting delusions which actively harms people is NEVER the kindest thing.

And we in fact do owe people yo keep I as good health as possible.

Our children, our loved ones - hell, taxpayers etc.

Send her a text apologising if you've upset her & explain you felt she was in denial about her health & that worries you & as her friend you'd feel bad not mentioning it to her as it's been on your mind since the hen weekend. Say the last thing you want to do is upset her & you'll support her anyway you can but sometimes a frank discussion from someone who cares is needed. Let her know her being on the larger side isn't an issue for you it's her overall health that concerns you. Let her know you love her how she is but want her to be aware, if she isn't already, that carrying the extra weight isn't good for her. You can be body positive being big but that positivity doesn't cover your health & the issues being over weight causes.

Agree

You should try watching some of the popular body positivity people before you say they must be aware. You might get quite a shock.

These influencers are dying young, in their 40s, 30s, and even 20s, all while claiming there is no link between fitness and health. They have huge followings.

People who start to lose weight are vilified in this group.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/26/style/body-positive-influencers-weight-loss.html

Pity it's behind a paywall.

You can register with the NYT and get a certain number of articles for free.

There are lots of things on the differernt body positivity influencers from other free sources, but not necessarily ones that MN users like.

I would just change the subject if she brings it up again, it’s like someone saying they’re a Tory.

That’s crazy. I am heavier than your friend and haven’t once needed shower help. Is she otherwise disabled? Why does she need help washing?

The pp's sister might be shorter than you and so is more affected. Sorry to be blunt, but 130 kg is a lot of weight - more than two 'normal-sized' women combined. I say this as someone who used to be obese so completely understand how you can get there, but also how you can get back to a healthier size.

Maybe she’s a lot shorter than you so the weight is distributed on a shorter frame thus making it more of an issue on her joints and mobility?

I was 13 stone at 5ft 2 and while obviously I could shower ok, I did start to struggle with things like stairs and walking for longer than 10 minutes and doing up the buckles of my sandals and severe back pain etc which surprised me as I was “only” 3-4 stone overweight. I was very sedentary though. I guess if someone is more active at that weight they may not have as many issues. Everyone’s body is so different really.

I suppose so, I am 5”7 but tall for a woman I guess. I’ve known people 30 stone plus who don’t struggle to shower, just seems insane. Only people I’ve seen with help in the shower are the poor people who do those documentaries about their size. Half ton mum etc. I can definitely struggle with inclines and stairs, I tend to be walk around 6-8 miles on weekends. The shower thing just baffles me.

Keep in mind that muscle weighs more than fat. You clearly have enough muscle to comfortably walk miles every weekend, accounting for a portion of your weight, while someone completely sedentary will be all fat and no muscle.

Good on you for speaking to her and updating on here. I’d take heart in that she knows how you feel and hopefully won’t keep repeatedly talking about body positivity.
I’d keep inviting her out with you, just avoid weight talk. Maybe meet at places to avoid the stopping and waiting scenario.

It must be really difficult seeing your friend struggle and also be in denial about the reality of her situation healthwise, but it looks like all you can do is be her friend and support her if something happens to change her mind. Sometimes there's a wake-up call about health that really brings it home to people. You are a good friend to worry about her.

Keep in mind that muscle weighs more than fat. You clearly have enough muscle to comfortably walk miles every weekend, accounting for a portion of your weight, while someone completely sedentary will be all fat and no muscle.

That is bollocks, people who carry around the equivalent of another person in weight, actually tend to have more muscle, especially the big leg/buttock muscles than their much slimmer sedentary counterparts, because they need to carry around a lot heavier load all the time, not just at the gym.

Read the full exchange of messages between myself and @Lovefromjuliaxo. She says she is heavier than 130kg and is perfectly capable of showering etc. She expressed surprise that someone 130 kg might need help with such activities.

I said she might be taller and, since she goes on long walks etc, she must have quite a lot of muscle (especially since, as you put it, she carries "around the equivalent of another person in weight"). Therefore she can be over 130kg but more mobile and visually thinner than someone who is short, weighs 130kg, and never gets off the sofa.

@Sugarcoldturkey I am shorter than her and weigh just over 130kg but used to weigh much more and I could still climb into the bath for a shower and my lifestyle is sedentary. Obese people have muscle where they need it, for moving around, because as I have pointed out before, we constantly carry around the sort of weight people struggle to lift at the gym. Try rucking with 70kg 24 hrs a day and get back to me

@Dymaxion I feel we're arguing at cross-purposes. Either you're not understanding my posts or I'm not understanding yours.

To be clear, I am not comparing a thin person and an obese person. I am comparing 2 obese women, one who does lots of exercise and one who does not. It is surely not controversial to say that the woman doing lots of exercise will have more muscle.

I guess so. I see myself as incredibly obese though, the doctor told me I would die very young if I stayed my weight. I do have to take breaks on my long walks. But I like to get them done and my bf is very supportive of them. But fair enough I suppose we are all different. I would hate struggling to shower 😢

Yes, my lifestyle is very sedentary apart from 2 days a week. I am a bit shocked about the unable to shower thing.