To call out friend on 'body positivity' delusion?

[treesandflowers95]

My bestie (i'll call her 'J') and I have been friends since primary school. She's godmother to my DD and we almost see each other as sisters as friends.

J has always been a curvier girl but as we've gone through our 20s, she's steadily put on more and more weight. She's 5ft 2 and now a size 30. Over the last couple of years its been noticeable how much into the 'body positivity' movement shes got. Her socials are full of shared posts about it, and she'll often bring it up in conversation.

Its not something i've ever really made an issue of with her before as though it worries me for her, i've always been of the view that everybody's body is their own business.

However we were on a hen do a few weeks ago, and honestly it was a real eye opener to just how big she's got and the impact that's starting to have on her health. The first one for me was that she needed a seatbelt extender on the flight and she seemed to think it was hilarious. We stayed in a villa on the edge of a little area with a strip of bars and restaurants. It was 350yds (i put it into Google maps) and slightly downhill on the way there and uphill on the way back, but nothing major. J was struggling to keep up with us on the way there, and on the way back was having to stop at least once because she was so out of breath. Bear in mind this was a group of girls quite a few in heels etc so its not like we were sprinting, and shes sweating and bright red. Aside from that, even basic stuff round the villa like walking upstairs (it was over 3 floors) and she struggled climbing up and down the ladders in and out of the pool. I didnt say anything to her at the time but its played on my mind.

This weekend there were four of us (all close friends) who'd been on the hen do out for drinks in the pub. We were talking about the hen do and i can't remember how it came up, but she started talking about the walk back to the villa and how steep the hill was etc. I said to her something along the lines of 'Oh it wasn't that bad' to which she replied 'Are you joking, it was so steep!' and was basically trying to get the other girls to agree and I just left it.

A bit later in the conversation she was talking about some body positivity stuff and how its about how you look after yourself and not how much you weigh. I've bit my tongue at stuff like this loads of times, but this time i said 'I think that's true to an extent but there's a point where you can't argue that you're healthy'. She didn't look happy and said 'what are you saying?'. I basically said that the fact she thought that walk on holiday was so difficult that she should have struggled with it so much was worrying, and might suggest her health wasn't as good as she seems to think it is. The reality is (and I didn't say this to her) that she eats really badly and drinks quite a lot. She spends loads on hair, make up, nails, etc which she considers as looking after herself.

She got really frosty with me, and has been funny in texts since, not her usual self, so i know i've annoyed her.

Fully accept it may not have been the best way to bring it up especially in front of others (but it wasnt like it was strangers, we're all mates back to primary school) but i just felt like it wasn't a time where i could just say nothing in the moment.

So i guess question is AIBU to have brought this up with her, and any advice on how to handle things next.

Agree. Also, someone might realise they have a problem but not want to ask their friend for help unless prompted.

For example times when I've felt low I've always appreciated when friends broach the topic first, showing their sincere concern.

They don’t. And it’s not up to anyone else to point it out.

@Sugarcoldturkey - you may be right about the paranoia - I would call it social anxiety rooted in bullying as a child, and seeing too many instances of people’s judgemental attitudes towards fat people on the internet. So while I agree some of it is in my head, I think some of it is real too - and I struggle to let the voice of common sense win over the voice of my anxiety. Hopefully I will be able to win more often than I lose.

I am very grateful to all of you who have said such kind things on here - thank you so much. ❤️

It’s not paranoia. Even if people ‘in the wild’ don’t take notice of you, comments like you see on threads like this are enough to make you anxious.

I heartily recommend getting your walker/seat out if you can and try not to worry about other people (I know it’s easier said than done). I’d happily join you on my scooter if you were close by!

You're completely right that people can be judgemental on the internet. But that's when they're online and focused on the topic. My point is more that when we're going about our day we're thinking about our own stuff and don't even clock anyone else around us. I've found it a useful reminder to myself at times when feeling self-conscious - it's not all about me and people literally couldn't care less. I find it a comforting thought!

I agree with this. Is arguing with your friend and being correct worth your friendship?
She might have laughed on the plane to diffuse and make light of the situation.
She is struggling, but don't judge her.

Is this thread really about theory of mind and whether or not you can imagine how it might feel to be painfully aware of your size but not yet in a place where you can make sustained changes?

Loving/caring about some1 means telling them the truth, even if it hurts their feelings, as opposed to going along with a lie to keep them happy.
Obviously you don't have to go on about it, maybe just one (private) conversation in a caring, but truthful, way and leave it after that.

@AdeptScroller - I think most overweight people know that they are overweight - they don’t need to be told ‘the truth’ - we are fat, not stupid.

We need to know that we are worthwhile, that we have value, and that our friends accept us just as we are. If someone hurts me, all I take from that is that I can’t trust that person any more.

I honestly believe that having a good self image, loving yourself, is the best foundation for being able to change the things that need changing. As I have said earlier, I do not like myself, I think I am a failure, and worthless - and it is very hard to want to look after the health and well-being of someone I dislike so much.

Obviously this is my issue, and I have to work on that myself - but encouragement and support from the people around me does help. So while I don’t need to be hurt more, or told things I already know, I do value the positive support I am given - I’d say this is the middle ground between blindly agreeing with someone’s wrong beliefs and telling the harsh truth even if it hurts.

@BeretRaspberry What if ppl say nothing, the person doesn’t lose weight and starts developing health problems?

DH has this situation with one of his sisters. She was a healthy weight and sporty when I first met her in her early 20’s, but gained a lot of weight 28-30. Now she’s 47 and I suspect that she’d be classed as morbidly obese (I don’t know exactly what she weighs). No one in the family has said anything except encourage her to exercise. She had a medical emergency five years ago and was hospitalized for several days.

Her siblings are expecting more emergencies in the coming years and her older sister has cried in front of me about losing her little sister.

No one lives close enough to provide longterm care if she needs it.

What are the family supposed to do? Continue to say nothing?

They should speak up and diet is more important than exercise in this situation so her family would be better off encouraging her to improve her diet, although I can see that’s a more delicate subject. It’s also easier to suffer injuries if you exercise while morbidly obese.

These are the same people who your SIL will call upon to help care for her if she does end up very ill. It’s definitely her siblings business to say something. I’d hope if I was in that situation someone close to me would say something.

As a fat person I do not ask people to collude with me - if I said something ridiculous like ‘I hate how small they make these chairs now’ rather than ‘Jesus these chairs are a bit tight since I gained more weight’ then I wouldn’t blame whoever I was with to be pissed off if it was one more comment in a long line of nonsense faux positivity.

I go walking sometimes with colleagues at lunch - I say ‘I find walking hard with my knee and weight but you guys do your usual and I’ll come back when I’m done’ and that’s fine with everyone.

I agree with you @Blueberryjamming and I know that my more outspoken side of the family would definitely say something if I were in this situation. It’s not my place to say anything if her parents and siblings won’t though.

Not to quibble, but I have to take issue with your first line. Horrible, toxic, abusive people don't deserve to feel good about themselves. I'm not saying anyone in this situation is any of those things, but everyone deserving to feel good about themselves is quite a blanket statement. There are lots of people who don't.

Moreover, trying to get somebody to face reality about her health is not punishment. Letting somebody slowly kill herself and not trying to do anything about it, otoh, is ultimately much more cruel.
I do think that people have to be ready to hear it though. If they aren't then there isn't much point because they won't listen.
It's a good part of why sending people to rehab fails so often. They don't accept that their substance abuse is a problem and they don't want to quit.

Yeah, that's the thing. I have two addicts in my family and it is definitely my business what they do to themselves. One has to have heart surgery because of it and the other is wildly irrational and verbally abusive. But anything I have ever said has fallen on deaf ears. So I've had to remove myself from the situation because it's too stressful.
I see them at the holidays and that's about it. Nobody should have to go through the agony of watching another person commit slow suicide.

People will make their own choices. We'll have to agree to disagree as to whether there are lots of people who don't deserve to feel good about themselves.

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius
I'm quite overweight, I know it, I'm not happy with myself. I'm not saying they should be mean to their friend or just tell them they're fat, but telling them they're beautiful the way they are etc isn't helpful either.
While I support the body positivity movement to an extent, it's just as harmful as the skinny movement of the 90s (as far back as I remember). Being told that obesity is something to be proud of, isn't supportive or caring. I can attest to the medical issues obesity causes. While piling on the weight, I would look in the mirror and think I was slimmer than I actually was. If friends had indulged me, I'd be fairly annoyed at them now.
Again, I'm not saying they should be mean, judgemental or anything of the sort with their friend. But if they're worried they should tell them at least once and can leave it at that. Maybe offer to go for walks, healthy eating/sharing recipes, inviting over for dinner etc is a way they can be supportive

I do cook everything from scratch. I mostly use joe wicks recipes or other healthy recipes. I geuinely do all the right things. The only size t i could ever maintain was 16 and only if i was running 2 hours a week

Well done OP, its not easy to watch people we love get unhealthy.

It's testament to your friendship that ypu said what you did and she's agreed to meet up.

People like to bury their heads in the sand but if you truly love someone, you say something.

How it's said is key as others have said but sometimes there's never a good time.

Weirdly, I have never received any abuse whilst being morbidly obese, I got called fat back when I was a size ten, by someone who could only rustle up a CVC word insult in his tiny little reptilian brain, but as a properly super fat lass, nothing, not a peep !

I reached the point, one day, desperately trying to get socks on, and cursing the massive bulge in front of me that was almost making it mission impossible, that I needed to do something different.
My heart hated me, my poor kidneys and liver should be awarded medals, my constantly under pressure joints and vascular system, my pancreas was about to wash it's hands of me and my bowel,well we are only just back on speaking terms !
Every single one of my body systems works and feels so much better as I lose weight and I say that as someone who has a long way to go yet.
And people close to me did say things to me out of concern, I didn't think of it as shaming or punishing, I am not ashamed to be obese, cross with myself for not dealing with it sooner, absolutely, but not ashamed.
I am never going to be a model material, far too old and have shit teeth and hair for starters, but I am going to have a really good try at not living a life which is much harder than it actually needs to be.

@ZombieGirl86 I think that’s what true body positivity is about-accepting that we’re not all designed to be a size 8. My DD (19) for example, is a tall hourglass. She’s sporty and fit, but she’ll never take a small dress size, because a 36DD chest with hourglass hips needs more material! She went through a phase when it bothered her that she was larger than many of her friends, but now she realizes that this is who she is.

Being positive about your naturally larger build is very different to abusing and neglecting your body to the point that your health is at risk.

Yes, they should continue to say nothing. Because really what will saying something achieve? If your loved one hasn’t been spurred on to change before, you mentioning it is highly unlikely to make any difference.

I was also always slim. I am now morbidly obese with a BMI of 40.7. If I attempt to lose weight again it will be dangerous for me in terms of a relapse of my eating disorder. I also can’t exercise due to illness (not caused by my weight). Oh, and my ED was largely caused by trying to be not fat (even though for a long time I objectively wasn’t). I literally dieted myself fat through loathing my body and shame. It really does not work.

@BeretRaspberry I think they probably will keep quiet, although I don’t know how she’ll manage if her health problems get serious. I’m guessing that she’s got an ED and perhaps it might help her to tell someone so they can support her to get help, but obviously I don’t know that.

It’s so different to my side of the family, we talk about almost everything! It may sound intrusive to some ppl, but it’s the way we are.

Well, yes I would... in the equivalent scenario of a conversation between close friends with the drinker talking about how they were just having a great time getting ratarsed every day, I wouldn't sit there and validate that. I'd tell a close friend that they're overdoing it and might want to think about reining it in.

How did the coffee go?

Hope the friendship is back on track and you were able to have a supportive conversation.