To call out friend on 'body positivity' delusion?

[treesandflowers95]

My bestie (i'll call her 'J') and I have been friends since primary school. She's godmother to my DD and we almost see each other as sisters as friends.

J has always been a curvier girl but as we've gone through our 20s, she's steadily put on more and more weight. She's 5ft 2 and now a size 30. Over the last couple of years its been noticeable how much into the 'body positivity' movement shes got. Her socials are full of shared posts about it, and she'll often bring it up in conversation.

Its not something i've ever really made an issue of with her before as though it worries me for her, i've always been of the view that everybody's body is their own business.

However we were on a hen do a few weeks ago, and honestly it was a real eye opener to just how big she's got and the impact that's starting to have on her health. The first one for me was that she needed a seatbelt extender on the flight and she seemed to think it was hilarious. We stayed in a villa on the edge of a little area with a strip of bars and restaurants. It was 350yds (i put it into Google maps) and slightly downhill on the way there and uphill on the way back, but nothing major. J was struggling to keep up with us on the way there, and on the way back was having to stop at least once because she was so out of breath. Bear in mind this was a group of girls quite a few in heels etc so its not like we were sprinting, and shes sweating and bright red. Aside from that, even basic stuff round the villa like walking upstairs (it was over 3 floors) and she struggled climbing up and down the ladders in and out of the pool. I didnt say anything to her at the time but its played on my mind.

This weekend there were four of us (all close friends) who'd been on the hen do out for drinks in the pub. We were talking about the hen do and i can't remember how it came up, but she started talking about the walk back to the villa and how steep the hill was etc. I said to her something along the lines of 'Oh it wasn't that bad' to which she replied 'Are you joking, it was so steep!' and was basically trying to get the other girls to agree and I just left it.

A bit later in the conversation she was talking about some body positivity stuff and how its about how you look after yourself and not how much you weigh. I've bit my tongue at stuff like this loads of times, but this time i said 'I think that's true to an extent but there's a point where you can't argue that you're healthy'. She didn't look happy and said 'what are you saying?'. I basically said that the fact she thought that walk on holiday was so difficult that she should have struggled with it so much was worrying, and might suggest her health wasn't as good as she seems to think it is. The reality is (and I didn't say this to her) that she eats really badly and drinks quite a lot. She spends loads on hair, make up, nails, etc which she considers as looking after herself.

She got really frosty with me, and has been funny in texts since, not her usual self, so i know i've annoyed her.

Fully accept it may not have been the best way to bring it up especially in front of others (but it wasnt like it was strangers, we're all mates back to primary school) but i just felt like it wasn't a time where i could just say nothing in the moment.

So i guess question is AIBU to have brought this up with her, and any advice on how to handle things next.

From his page:

DR JOSHUA WOLRICH
BSc (Hons) MSc MBBS MRCS ANutr
Welcome! I'm a HAES-aligned medical doctor, Registered Associate Nutritionist and author of the Sunday Times Bestseller, Food Isn't Medicine. I believe that your relationship with food is incredibly important and a crucial step in any health promotion journey. I'm not here to dictate what you should eat or prescribe rigid meal plans; instead let's figure out together what works best for you and your body.

WHAT IS HEALTH AT EVERY SIZE?
Healthcare overwhelmingly follows a weight-normative approach, where a focus on weight and weight loss is used to try and define health and wellbeing. This is harmful. As someone who follows a Health at Every Size®approach, I believe that:
Health and wellbeing is incredibly multifaceted and the link between health and weight is nowhere near as straightforward as people make it out to be.
We should stop indiscriminately advising weight loss when we have no guarantee that it's going to improve health or be sustainable in the long term.
We must acknowledge the real danger of weight stigma and fight to eradicate it.

I could read this differently. Maybe he is suggesting that if people focused on being healthy, rather than measuring weight loss, that weight loss would be a by-product of that.
You see so many people dieting who have a ‘goal weight’ and it can seem insurmountable if it’s a huge amount weight that they need to lose.
If people focused more on looking after themselves, moving around more and eating healthier and paying attention to their mental health they will start to notice a difference quickly and weight loss would be a side effect of that.

He does advocate focusing on improving healthy behaviours, as do a lot of professionals who advocate for HAES. But he doesn’t focus on weight loss at all. Possibly because improving healthy behaviours doesn’t guarantee weight loss.

I did read that @BeretRaspberry , as someone who's BMI was just over 50, and who's Hba1c was borderline, I am not sure that suggesting not losing any weight would have been responsible advice from any Doctor ?
My Doctor didn't prescribe any diet, they asked me how I thought I had got to this point and how I thought I might deal with it. Like so many obese people, I am fully aware of how I got to be so big ( eating crunchy nut cornflakes out of the packet whilst waiting for the deep fat fryer to heat up, was just one example of my not nutrient rich diet ) and I know the changes I need to make to be healthier, it isn't rocket science. I swapped mainlining shit carbs ( not all carbs ) for eating lots and lots of veg, pulses and protein, the side effect of which is being able to get my socks on without going puce and being able to walk a hell of a lot further than OP's friend, when nearly double her age !

But most doctors know that maintaining weight loss long term is impossible for the majority of the population. So telling you to eat well, increase exercise etc etc would still be valid even if you didn’t lose weight.

You see so many people dieting who have a ‘goal weight’ and it can seem insurmountable if it’s a huge amount weight that they need to lose.

This is very true ! to be in a healthy BMI I need to lose another 9 stone. I am not focusing on that figure though, I am focusing on getting into the 19 stone something bracket, once I hit that I will focus on the getting into the 18 stone bracket. I spent 14 years eating myself into this position, I don't expect to hit sub 12 stone for a good while yet, and there will be times where I will stick at a weight for a while, but if I continue to feed my body the food it needs for health and move around a bit more, these plateau's will pass.

Thanks for updating.

You've said your piece @treesandflowers95 , and she has decided that she is fine as she is.

I don't think there's anymore you can do. If she does run into serious health issues, then I am sure hed appreciate you being there for her.

But most doctors know that maintaining weight loss long term is impossible for the majority of the population

And why is that ? Usually because peoples expectations are far higher than their ability to commit to them long term. That is possibly where your Dr Wolrich comes in, by managing expectations ? I know I cannot reverse 14 years of abuse in a short period of time in a sustainable manner. I know I can reverse 14 years of abuse over a much longer period of time in a sustainable way and that is what I am doing. It does involve losing weight, because that is what will have the most impact on my health and my ability to function in day to day life and as I age.

Because of biology. I’ve posted this before but this neuroscientist with a PhD explains it well.

You have been out with your friend and smoothed the waters so I’d step back now. You’ve made it clear the walk was not difficult and she would have been able to see others managing it without fuss.

sadly there is nothing you can do unless she stops this body positivity mindset.

my very positive friend who was size 32 (but a lot taller than your friend) and also claimed to be fit, was ok until the day she wasn’t, and is now disabled due to her weight, unable to walk, work or have a life. It’s very sad but if her own making

I disagree with the cosmetic surgery comparison, but even going along with it, surely you see a difference between having one procedure done and having fifty? The latter is surely a sign of an underlying problem, probably mental health related. Same difference between being overweight and being morbidly obese. If someone ends up 600 pounds then they're not ok.

OP, I'm really sorry that you're so worried (for good reason) about your friend. I don't have any advice for you, but wishing you all the best.

As a plus size gal size 28, she knows deep down she’s unhealthy. Shes just trying to make herself feel better with the positivity, but trust me…deep down she knows. The laughing on the plane will be defence humour. Trying to get your friends to agree with how long and steep the walk is will be to hide her embarrassment. The comments about it not mattering what you weigh will be a defence mechanism, I don’t think deep down she will truly believe it.

I would be inclined to just change the subject, just nod and smile and say something else…if you feel awkward doing that then maybe it’s time to stop hanging out as often…it’s super sensitive, so it’s hard. Maybe you could say you fancied swimming or something low impact, see if she fancies joining. Maybe you could have her and your girlfriends over for a dinner party, make it a regular thing and tell your other girlfriends to cook healthy but satisfying meals. Slimline tonic, diet lemonade and coke, vodka etc instead of wine and beer and sugary cocktails. You don’t have to mention weight loss. However I fear that now you’ve said what you’ve said she will now know what you think and none of the gentle encouragement will work.

i dont think you should’ve said anything. I’m sorry. She will likely have GP’s and probably family commenting on her weight and how it’s too much. I know some friends see it as caring, but in my opinion, a friend should never critique a friends looks unless it’s something they can change within a minute (ie lipstick on teeth)

I can see you don’t agree with her thoughts, but I would’ve just changed the subject.

Essentially, it’s up to her if she decides to lose weight. Encourage her if she starts to, but don’t tell her to/tell her she’s unhealthy, even if it’s kindly meant imo. You’re her friend, but it’s not your place.

I’m glad that your friendship is back to normal @treesandflowers95 and I agree with others that it’s best not to discuss weight going forward. Given that your friend is only 28, I’m not surprised that her health is fine, her body’s young and hasn’t been carrying this much excess weight for very many years.

Like @Temporaryname158 ’s friend my SIL was fine for years until she had a health emergency at 42. Since then, her breathing has worsened, she was diagnosed with sleep apnea last year and she’s struggling to walk up the six steps from her basement. Her parents in their 80’s go up those steps more easily. At 47, her body simply isn’t coping as well.

I hope that your friend does manage to make some positive changes in the next few years and knows that you’ll support her. 💐

This thread reminds me of a program what was on BBC or C4... I forget. A group of obese/morbidly obese people spent a week or so together in a posh mansion, and were encouraged to talk about weight issues etc.

The most vocal of the group was the skinniest (but still big), who was telling people 3 times her weight that they were beautiful and "didn't need to change". She refused to use the word 'fat' and any attempt at anyone expressing health concerns was shot down by her with comments about being ableist. She refused to believe that being big can make you unwell.

I'm a little bit shocked by some of these comments.

Dr Joshua Wolrich is exploiting this body positivity movement is he! What a load of absolute crap.

OP, you clearly really care about your friend, it's such a difficult subject but I cannot believe she doesn't know how overweight she is.

Does she live in a house without mirrors? I did for a year or 2 and put on nearly 2 stone when I was a teenager. It was only when I looked in my mums full length bedroom mirror one day I realised how big I'd got!

She will know, she is obviously not being truthful with her friend. Likely a defence mechanism. Now that they have made their peace OP should just butt out.

I think you're the one with a problem. Just give her options and a timetable; 'I'm planning to get out early - shall we meet at such and such at whatever time?' Perhaps gently help her along the health path re exercise with something she may enjoy e.g swimming. I'm small myself and well aware of 'skinny privilege'.

Nothing more to do then OP. It looks like your friend is successfully deluding herself. And only hearing what she wants to hear from the doctor.

The people that enable this kind of delusion should be ashamed though.

i can understand your concern. Although what I find bewildering is that your friend will be FULLY aware of her weight/risks and probably feels a huge amount of shame. It’s like people don’t realise that overweight people are aware. Of course they are but there will be complicated reasons/difficulties that mean that’s just the weight they are. The body positivity will be a way of coping. She doesn’t need someone pointing out what she already knows. Patronising and so so so hard to hear. I say this as someone who is overweight.

Such strong feelings about other people's choices. What are you projecting?

Yeah they're not ok but it's not up to OP to condescendingly tell them they struggled to walk up a hill because they're fat. The friend knows this ffs.

Thanks for the comments all. Well, almost all...I think the people who are suggesting that they'd end a 20 year friendship over this are saying more about themselves.

Fully aware that there isn't anything more i can do at this point as it's down to J. It won't stop me worrying about her, or being sceptical about what she claims her doctor has said. I find it impossible to believe that any doctor would tell someone who has a BMI that is probably in the 60s that their health is 'fine'. If that makes me a bad person for not believing her then so be it i guess.

Thanks again x

Patients can claim their doctor or therapist etc. has said absolutely anything, and you will never find out the truth due to confidentiality. She could have had a doctor say 'look, your weight is likely to kill you in the next ten years if you don't start losing weight now. You're approaching a point now where the damage will be long term even if you do lose some weight. This has become a matter of urgency' and gone home and told her bopo buddies the GP said she was in perfect health and weight isn't related to health at all.

At best, the GP might have said something like 'you're not currently showing any overt symptoms of diabetes/heart disease etc., however that doesn't mean the damage isn't taking place where we can't see it'.

Regardless, you can't change what she does and you should be proud you at least tried to say something. Unfortunately there's nothing anyone can do but her.

She will know what her Dr has really said and will know deep down that you (and maybe others in your group) care about her and her health - she may still delude herself but she may, just may, pause and think about it. You will have given her that thought. Hopefully it might at least spur her to do something even if it's privately.