Measles … I don’t understand!

[dol1]

Dd has had the vaccine at 12 months. I’ve been watching news and there is apparently a ‘surge’ in cases now. The second vaccine for it isn’t until she’s 3… does this mean she could well get measles between now and then?

When are you saying this was happening? I'm 68 and when I was a child, measles was something to be feared, though it didn't terrorise mothers in the way German measles (rubella) did. My eyes were badly damaged by measles when I was 10 so I've had that to contend with for all my life virtually and I was very, very ill with it.

Absolutely agree. Considering the effects of polio who in God’s name would take their kid to a ‘polio party’ and risk them being incapacitated for life, rather than get a simple vaccination. I’ve read some utterly batshit things on MN but this wins hands down !!

They certainly did not . My dad is 84 and they all knew how dangerous measles was as they were more familiar with its killer potential. Measles cases were fully isolated.

shallweorderpizza
I'm here for the Malory Towers sub plot on this thread. Those girls and their peers over at St Clares were not allowed to go to school unless they had a health certificate! And there were loads of plot features about quarantine and the San.
I vividly remember the Alicia plotline, she was relieved it was measles as she thought she had been struck stupid for bullying. And yes she did fail the exams. She went to a London University College I think, maybe LSE.
And it was in the Mirror cracked that german measles featured. Agatha Christie made it quite clear that this was a deeply selfish act by the sick woman. And Miss Marple pretty much said she deserved to be murdered!
I'm very pro vax probably because of my childhood reading materials. Also I've never taken cocaine and never will because Regina Morrow died from it in that Sweet Valley High book.

Me too.

There was also quarantine around those with measles then

No jab available then, so it was one of those things parents accepted their DC would have to go through, but it was still dreaded. It's so very infectious, it would sweep round a school but quarantine was attempted to protect those with younger DC (as it is worse in infants).

Parties were for German measles (less common once there was a job) and for chicken pox (a much less severe disease than measles, even though it's occasionally nasty). People didn't really bother for mumps, as it is less infectious.

The first measles jab rolled out in the late 60s - it was very effective (and still would be if it was made). It was not withdrawn because of any safety or effectiveness issues, but as a policy decision not to renew the licence (required admin every 5 or so years) because public health planners wanted MMR only.

The numbers of measles cases seem to be creeping inexorably up. Every year there are small clusters, but if one of those reaches a tipping point, the numbers shoot up (as happened in Wales a few years ago) and spread more readily to other areas (which didn't happen then, mercifully, but people were very concerned that it could).

Very young babies should have good maternal protection (assuming the mother has had either the disease or has been immunised with any version of the vaccine). but that wanes over the first year of life. That's why the jab is normally given around 12-13months. Before that it does not "take" as well, as the response might be a piggyback on remaining maternal immunity rather than the baby forming their own. That there is susceptibility in older babies (maternal protection worn off, but not yet scheduled for jab) is unimportant in a population where immunity is high (which these days means immunisation levels are high) as the disease isn't circulating. The herd protects those babies, who then get the jab at the age that doctors know it is overwhelmingly likely they will form their own (and durable) response.

Are you sure ? In my case it was German Measles - Rubella - for female children because of the risks of getting it whilst pregnant.

Polio parties? Have you never seen the photos of rows of children in iron lungs in polio wards in the mid-20th century? It was a deeply feared disease. Please apply some critical thinking and sprinkle a pinch of salt on your mother’s anecdotes.

I vaguely remember having measles in the early sixties. The curtains had to be kept closed to keep the room dark. I also had the whooping cough also not very pleasant.

Polio isn't even an injection!
It's 'syrup' on a sugar cube.{Or was when I had it}

A woman I know had a beastly chafing caliper on her leg from childhood polio, but that was nothing like ending up in the 'Iron lung' for life.

This lovely man caught polio aged 6.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/M6yCns1g790

"The Mirror Crack'd" is about German measles, not measles.

German measles is a fairly trivial disease, but it can cause appalling damage to babies in utero (that's what happened in that book, and provided the motive for the murder).

It's why the measles jab cannot be given to pregnant women, as it is a live virus. Even though there are no known cases of the attenuated vaccine strain causing harm to a baby during pregnancy, the risk though small is there.

So younger women in their 20s (born during the time when uptake crashed) really ought to check if they were immunised before they consider getting pregnant. Because the jab won't be given to pregnant women (German measles component to risky) so the baby will be born with no maternal protection against measles and be vert much at risk if there is an outbreak.

I don't know if the jab can be given early to the baby in those cases - there's no need to wait for the year or so for maternal protection against measles to wear off if there is none. But I don't know what the public health policy is on this. With high vaccination rates and next to no circulating disease, then there would be no compelling reason to bring the jab forward. In an outbreak, that might be something to consider.

Arghhhhhh no no no not in the UK (America maybe)
Measles parties were reportedly popular in the 50s and 60s, before the MMR vaccine was introduced. There is so much wrong in this statement. In England and wales you were isolated (I can't imagine it would have been different in Scotland or N.Ireland but I don't know) so absolutely no way would you have had a party.
Next the MMR came after the initial measles vaccine. Vaccines for German measles and mumps came later. German measles or rebulla is only dangerous to the unborn child, therefore a German measles or rebulla party would not be beyond the realms of possibility, as rebulla vaccine fist appeared in 1970, a few years after the measles vaccine. In 1988 the MMR became the vaccine of choice for all three illnesses.
I think there has been confusion with German measles and measles, easy enough error, but very foolhardy to suggest measles parties, even with modern medicine, measles is still a dangerous disease. German measles is unpleasant, but no more risky than chicken pox (although dangerous for a foetus). It's why they test for rubella antibodies when you are pregnant.

Nobody had measles parties because measles is so incredibly contagious, it would have been unnecessary and stupid - before vaccination, pretty much everybody got measles as a child, causing a huge amount of long term harm to a lot of people’s health. Nobody would willingly encourage their child to catch measles, unless they were very blasé about blindness, hearing damage, lung damage, brain damage, or death. There is even a rare complication from measles that can develop up to 10 years after originally catching it - subacute sclerosing panencephalitis - and measles seriously depresses the immune system for several years afterwards, so you are then at more risk from all sorts of other infections, too.

Sorry, I see the source is friends, not your mother. The principle nevertheless applies!

The oral version (given on a sugar lump) was withdrawn from NHS in 2004. Everyone has had the injectable since then.

This is a good thing, as the oral version shed through faeces, and could occasionally produce the actual disease. Which was mild in most, but produced appalling effects in the unlucky few (striking both those previously in good health, not just those with other medical conditions)

I'm wondering if the measles parties that I remember being dragged too to "help boost the vaccine efficency" was German measles (rubella) and if the authors of those articles are making the same mistake as I might have but either way they were only for the vaccinated

You’re not immune to catching something because you’ve had a jab. She can still catch it. It should just lessen her symptoms/reaction if she does get it

Kids have died from Whooping cough which is an absolute disgrace given its a vaccination the mother can get during pregnancy. My partner is old enough to remember having it as a child pre vaccine and says its horrific.

I'd be wary of this. My mum was a fit and healthy kid. Suffered permanent sight damage and told me many times she felt extremely ill. So dieing isn't the only thing to be worried about. The effects can be major and life long

Thank you doginatent for your detective work. I don't normally get cross about misinformation, but honestly the thought people might read this and take their kids to measles party, is just worrying.
I'll say it one more before I head into work: measles remains a very serious and dangerous illness. If you don't vaccinate your kids, make sure you tell them, so they can choose to get the vaccine when they are older. If you don't vaccinate your kids, you put them at risk of permanent disability and potentially death.

To make it worse, the protection from the whooping cough vaccine doesn’t actually last long, particularly with the modern version of it - most teenagers and above no longer get any protection from their childhood whooping cough vaccinations. Various other countries offer boosters at around the age of 11 or 12 (and in the US they advise boosters every 10 years), but not the UK. This lack of protection means it can spread far more easily than it should, including to the babies who can be killed by it. Also, it may be considerably less likely to kill you when you are older, but it can still make you feel extremely ill for several weeks, is extremely contagious, and can even cause severe stress incontinence, hernias, pneumonia and even a collapsed lung, as the cough is violent, uncontrollable and debilitating (and goes on and on - another name being used for it is the 100-day cough…).

It's invariably fatal. It's a delayed onset progressive brain condition.

I used to know someone who had seen a case (worked in paediatric ICU in a large London hospital, initial disease contracted before the family moved to the UK). It's horrible.

It's also pretty rare.

But there are no known cases at all (worldwide) arising from any attenuated vaccine strain since the 1960s

Yep I put German measles in my post. The problem was as Miss Marple explained in some detail, Agatha Christie worked as a dispenser at UCLH in ww2 and knew her onions, that it causes birth defects if a pregnant woman catches it. The murder victim knew she had german measles and still went out to a massive social function and passed the German measles on to the film star who later murdered her. Film stars baby was born with severe disabilities.

Not true of actual measles. Before the vaccination existed, little girls were sometimes deliberately exposed to GERMAN measles (rubella) so that they would be immune by reproductive age, as it is usually a fairly mild disease for children, but has a high risk of causing birth defects in unborn babies. But measles is a much nastier disease for the individual, and one wishes to avoid it if at all possible. Vaccination usually does prevent it, and, even when it doesn't prevent it altogether, usually makes it much milder,

Also, people who had whooping cough as babies or children are more likely to develop asthma when they are older.

@OhTediosity perhaps I wasn't clear?
I shared what 2 friends born in 1950 have told me: That there was a range of parental responses, even to the very serious disease of Polio. No, neither friend was taken to a 'party' but they did hear of it mentioned among some adults then.
1 friend was not vacinnated & was lucky. 1, I do not know but assume he wasn't & was unlucky. He was my Partner & I'm well aware of the lifelong shadow of that year in an iron lung both physically & mentally, no documentary needed.

I had both my kids vaccinated as babies despite the MMR 'ASD scare' then.
We all had Covid jabs, despite the then hysteria (& speed of roll out worries?)
I decided any risk was less than the disease if we were 'unlucky' as some were.

My son just had bad Myocarditis. The first thing 3 cardiologists asked me was: 'when did he have his last covid vaccine & which one did he have?'. The NHS is, I imagine, keeping data on such things (so vaccines can be updated/ tweaked?)
His vaccination was a while ago so it is unlikely it is linked in any way - anyway I'd still rather take a vaccine than a chance. With Measles, Polio, Covid. All of it.
We are fortunate to live in a a time & place where they are freely available.