To ask older Mumsnetters if you think the internet has improved or denigrated society?

[Appalonia]

I'm 59 so grew up without the internet. Although I accept it's created a lot of good things, I can't help but think that's it's also created huge issues in the world that just wouldn't have existed without it. For example:

Violent, misogynistic porn that's available to children
Incel culture
The death of the high street
No one talking on the phone anymore, and young people refusing to answer the phone
Revenge porn
Musicians finding it v hard to make a living due to streaming
Anxiety in young people
Trans ideology and young pp being groomed online
The lack of customer service from companies
Loneliness and isolation
The polarisation of political views
Fake news

And so much more. Obviously we can't go back, but sometimes I think we had no idea what would happen when we unleashed this onto the world... Curious to know what other pp think...?

I agree with you. It’s added some good things but on balance I think many more bad ones.

Totally agree -(44 here!), I miss people walking without looking down at a phone!!!

I wouldn't be without it though! We have had no Internet since Storm.Lillian and it's been awful.

In terms of us as a society, I think it's impact has been negative.

In terms of enabling humdrum function in everyday life - a benefit.

I don’t know if mid-40s is older but I’ll chip
in!

I was maybe the last generation to grow up without the internet and I’m really glad about it.

The internet promised a new age of information sharing and enlightenment. Instead, very large parts of it are a total cesspit.

The good things and positives of the internet (and there are many) are outweighed heavily by the bad. It is a true curate’s egg.

I don’t know if there is any way of putting the genie back in the bottle. However, I would gladly go back to the age of no internet and no smart phones (she says, on her smart phone), and all the inconvenience that comes with it. Maybe I’m just a Luddite.

I agree. There are many things I love about it but I think it is now tending to do more harm than good.

Its gone from being an extra option to a necessity for virtually everything - shopping, banking, job hunting, dealing with local council, parking. My father is early 90s and fully independent but he finds it more and more difficult to deal with the online world.

Im glad it wasn't a feature of my life when I was younger.

Also the carbon emissions from the Internet are huge. We are being encouraged to do everything online, to not travel, not drive cars, not fly on holidays but the emissions from the Internet are bigger than the entire global air traffic.

That does not add up to me.

Yes, but it's hard to manage without it when everyone else is still using it.

What about if it disappeared and no one had it?

So many pros and cons.

But I'd hate to go back to the days when I couldn't look up any piece of information I wanted so easily.

And the benefits it being used in the sorts of ways it was originally intended for are incalculable

Like most technological advancements, I think there's both good and bad. I mourn the slower pace of things, the rise in pornography, the demise of the high street and the change in many social habits as much as I value the access to quality information, goods & services - and entertainment.

Like most technological advancements, society goes through periods of adaptation and readjustment.

The rise in overt misogyny isn't down to the internet alone, it's a predictable reaction to the improvement in equal rights for women (and minorities of race, sexuality & ability, too). It's also a reaction to long period of economic stress.

The internet has changed many attitudes for the better and continues to do so. Recently, I've been marvelling at how more inclusive society has become of disabilities compared to how it was when I was growing up. A long way to go, sure, but we've made strides.

In many ways the internet is great but it comes with a lot of downsides as well just like everything really. It’s a reflection of us to be fair its ills haven’t sprung from nowhere into our one wholesome human lives.

Yeah I do wish it was a bit more optional. I'm trying to be a good role model for my very small children by not being on my phone all the time. I leave it at the front door and only pick it up if they're out or in bed unless taking a photo. But, there are so many things I reach for the phone to do. Some days I'm good and have a notebook for all the stuff I've thought about during the day so I can do it in the evening, but sometimes you think 'oh that'll just take a minute...' so go to do it, then you have to register, submit an OTP, give a vile of blood and the coordinates of your great great grandmothers place of birth etc. Bleugh.

There was a sweet spot, it’s too much now. I think internet phones maybe even broadband, was the tipping point. With them came the expectation of contact at all times. The ease to engage with that rather than the world around you. Algorithms pushing people into darker places and echo chambers.
the fact you need a smartphone for so much now, even the government have an expectation of them being on and used
you can’t switch it off. Before broadband and iPhones you could, you were unlikely to spend the time we do on a laptop in the same room as your family.

On balance, it's been a huge negative for the humanity of humans, I have no doubt.

Like a PP said, for the bumbling along of practical, everyday matters, it has its uses. But everything takes an age and a stupid amount of energy. I'm always shattered and a huge part of it it's the amount of time I need to be online.

Information pollution is a huge problem. People think they are informed when they are just exposed to a superficial and/or manipulated version of events (as ever with history, but on a gargantuan scale), and thus polarisation grows.

My hope is that we'll eventually become a Star-Trek like society where we manage to tame the monster we've created, looking back with an incredulous feeling of "what the hell were were thinking?!" But alas, not sure if that bit of Sci-Fi will ever come to pass.

Now there's all the AI making fake images too... it's horrible.

I love the internet. I love having so much knowledge at the tip of my finger. I can find out anything in seconds, verify anything, find alternative sources of information and compare.

I've made friends on social media. I travel a lot and it's so much easier than carrying around a travel book. I can book tickets for anything, find out about events all over the world, look up obscure facts, buy anything in minutes and so on.

Benefits for society have been enormous, we can exchange information, start political movements, culminate knowledge, challenge human rights violations, verify information, explore ideas and meet like minded people from all over the world. Videos that have gone viral have led to the righting of injustice and so on.

Downsides: misogyny and extremism.

I'm your age, and with you. I think the benefits are outweighed by the disadvantages.

I also think that folks in a couple of hundred years time will look back on the way we allowed children access to phones/internet in the way that we do over Victorians who drugged their children with gin and opium.

I’m old enough to remember pre-internet , unfortunately I think the drawbacks now vastly outweigh the benefits. Although we can look for information about anything in an instant the web allows rapid spread of misinformation, radicalisation and indoctrination of vulnerable individuals e.g. incel, online bullying, suicide sites etc. I’ve no idea how we could eradicate all of the above so on balance I would return to pre-internet times

Hugely negative. Social media and AI in particular. The internet should be a useful product. With social media and AI, we are the product- controlled by divisive algorithms, sold to advertisers, then scraped up and presented back to ourselves through machine learning.

I’d bin the whole lot (except maybe Spotify and Google maps).

Anyone else old enough to remember when the Walkman first started? There were lots of complaints then about young people wandering around listening to music and ignoring everything else. I'm also old enough to remember the National Front and the like quite successfully radicalising young men with polarised political views, rampant conspiracy theories, misogyny, widespread concerns about gay people grooming children and so on.

Honestly, I think it's 50:50. Yes the Internet undoubtedly facilitates bad things but it facilitates a lot of good ones, too. I can organise my disabled mum's finances and so on without needing to drag her round to the bank, the local council, the electricity board shop etc. I can get groceries delivered to her door. I can video chat to my relatives overseas for free - in the 70s we had a couple of brief, very expensive, pre-booked calls to my uncle in America plus the occasional airmail letter. I can find places to go, things to do, clubs to join, so much more easily.

Change is always problematic and disruptive.

Almost entirely negative including on me- reading and attention especially. Not so much the internet, more devices and apps. In particular I'd single out easily accessible porn, online gaming isolation, loss of attention, parents on phones not chatting to their kids, and the massive energy and environmental costs of having everyone connected.

I'm 58. Mixed feelings. I agree with all the negatives already mentioned really but there have been some massive pluses too.
My DC was diagnosed with a rare condition as a preschooler. There were NO support groups in the UK at the time and there was very little information available even to me as a medical professional. But the Internet allowed me to contact parents in other countries, hear about new research coming out more or less as soon as it was published and so on. The Internet created a community for us.
Information is updated so much faster these days too. In my student days, textbooks were basically out of date before they were published and it took a long time for information to filter out in journals etc. Now if there's say some kind of safety alert it can be with every doctor in the country instantly. And it's so much easier to get advice from colleagues elsewhere in the country or abroad.
It is also much easier to disseminate info to patients.
On the other hand, there are things about face to face consultations thar can never be replaced by virtual ones, and we didn't use to get patients demanding bizarre treatments because they'd seen something on TikTok so it must be true!
But overall I'd say it's been positive for me both professionally and personally.

I'm 51 and this is exactly my feeling too.

I wonder what Tim Berners-Lee thinks? Has he said anywhere?

There are some things I love and some I hate. I hate all the ones you've mentioned, especially porn and misogyny which is definitely worse than pre-internet. I hate the way women are treated online, I hate the trolling and the anti feminism, it seems to have brought out the worst in men.

Also people seem so stupid about it and believe everything they read, I'm not sure there are enough people applying critical thinking to what they read. A friend posted on a social media channel about regretting dental implants back in the day (1990s or something) and someone said "why didn't you google it stupid?" - er, there WAS no GOOGLE back then, stupid yourself!

But I love things like mumsnet (when it's at its best when women are supporting each other), I love getting my shopping delivered, I love being able to look at a beach in another country in real time, I love being able to send my children presents at the click of a mouse.

And I love, love, love streaming! I'd never want to go back to Blockbuster and 3 channels. Online banking is useful, sending money quickly is useful.

Personally a massive bonus. It’s made my industry safer, I can do my job full time and have wfh options so I can spend more time with my family and not commuting. We have been able to employ those less able and attracted a more diverse workforce.

I can see my family online who live miles away weekly and my child gets to regularly see their grandparents. I feel closer to friends as can send photos, quickly arrange meet ups, just generally feel more socially connect to those I don’t live near.

It’s given women and other underrepresented groups a voice, built communities.

For me it’s been positive.

Oh thank you for your replies, I really thought I'd be castigated for my post. Agree that there definitely was a
' sweet spot', when internet dating was a great way to meet new people, when Friends Reunited put old friends in touch with each other and you could buy interesting things online. That all feels so innocent compared to the monster it's become these days.

Sometimes I think, there will be at some point be a day when there is no one left who knows what the world was like pre internet, and all that we've known and grown up with, will be lost forever...