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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask older Mumsnetters if you think the internet has improved or denigrated society?

174 replies

Appalonia · 28/08/2024 17:08

I'm 59 so grew up without the internet. Although I accept it's created a lot of good things, I can't help but think that's it's also created huge issues in the world that just wouldn't have existed without it. For example:

Violent, misogynistic porn that's available to children
Incel culture
The death of the high street
No one talking on the phone anymore, and young people refusing to answer the phone
Revenge porn
Musicians finding it v hard to make a living due to streaming
Anxiety in young people
Trans ideology and young pp being groomed online
The lack of customer service from companies
Loneliness and isolation
The polarisation of political views
Fake news

And so much more. Obviously we can't go back, but sometimes I think we had no idea what would happen when we unleashed this onto the world... Curious to know what other pp think...?

OP posts:
fussychica · 29/08/2024 16:06

67 here so obviously grew up without it. Even my 30 year old son had limited access as he was growing up.
For me it's a plus, I use it all the time but I could probably do without it in the main, like returning to physical newspapers, reading books etc but it wouldn't be great. I'd particularly miss stuff like Netflix etc and the way information is at your fingertips.
However, I do feel sorry for young people especially, as their whole lives are lived on line and they are exposed to so much negativity.

Besttimelftheyear · 29/08/2024 16:16

A bit of both.

I'm 39. We got the Internet when I was about 15. But smartphones didn't become a huge thing until I was in my early 20s. It's got bigger and bigger with things we couldn't have dreamed of. Google street view, webcams everywhere, stock checkers for shops, Amazon, streaming services.

I wouldn't be without the Internet. The negatives for me personally are probably smartphone addiction, I spend too much time scrolling instead of reading a book or something more productive.

Life was perfectly manageable without the internet. A lot of things did seem more exciting and spontaneous somehow. I suppose everything took longer and there was less choice. There was an element of surprise that you just don't get today.

RaraRachael · 29/08/2024 16:25

I'd rather "traipse round shops" and try stuff on and be able to see the quality than order online and have to go to the faff of returning 90% of it because it doesn't fit or the quality is rubbish.

MavisPennies · 29/08/2024 17:17

cupcaske123 · 28/08/2024 18:11

Really?

No more zoom, Google maps, shopping delivery, booking events, research, banking, WhatsApp, product comparison, news, email, streaming, books, transport tickets etc?

Let's see:
Zoom - hate it (means I never get a day off if I'm sick)
Google maps - it is good, but Ato Z is a good replacement
Shopping delivery doesn't require internet
WhatsApp can double fuck off as can email and product comparison
Books do not require the internet and I never use it for them. It would be lovely if there were a few more big Libraries around.
Transport tickets also don't require internet.

I'll admit streamed TV is actually great.

OonaStubbs · 29/08/2024 17:19

I sometimes think computers should be banned entirely and we should go back to the old ways.

Sethera · 29/08/2024 17:26

LoremIpsumCici · 29/08/2024 14:38

@LindorDoubleChoc
Business thrived, people had jobs and made money,

That is not how I remember the 70s and 80s. Really high unemployment, businesses going under, terrorism, racist thugs roaming the streets, Falklands war.

Apart from the Falklands War all that is happening in 2024!

Sethera · 29/08/2024 17:28

MavisPennies · 29/08/2024 17:17

Let's see:
Zoom - hate it (means I never get a day off if I'm sick)
Google maps - it is good, but Ato Z is a good replacement
Shopping delivery doesn't require internet
WhatsApp can double fuck off as can email and product comparison
Books do not require the internet and I never use it for them. It would be lovely if there were a few more big Libraries around.
Transport tickets also don't require internet.

I'll admit streamed TV is actually great.

Agree with you apart from swapping streamed TV for Google Maps as my 'one good thing'. I have very poor direction sense so Google Maps is useful when walking somewhere unfamiliar. I can take or leave streamed TV though - don't pay for any beyond what comes with the TV licence and any series I really like, I try to buy on DVD.

whyNotaNice · 29/08/2024 17:31

Both. But just like in the olden days: keeping your kids under good supervision, knowing where they go, not overgossiping your personal life to just anyone applies to all you do online.

qwertyasdfgzxcv · 29/08/2024 18:04

It's saved us time.... yet it's mean workplaces have expected us to do more with our time so net zero. There must have been an optimum time.

RaraRachael · 29/08/2024 18:06

Stuff like online banking is fine as long as you have good mobile signal. I can only rarely receive texts so I'm stuck when trying to do something that requires a one time pass code by text. My only solution - to visit the nearest branch 25 miles away. A pain in the arse and then what do I do when they inevitably close that branch?

LindorDoubleChoc · 29/08/2024 20:37

LoremIpsumCici · 29/08/2024 14:38

@LindorDoubleChoc
Business thrived, people had jobs and made money,

That is not how I remember the 70s and 80s. Really high unemployment, businesses going under, terrorism, racist thugs roaming the streets, Falklands war.

Hmm hmm. And the internet solved all those (perpetual) issues - how? How many wars have there been since the Falklands?

I'm not imagining the past as some sort of Utopia. Just that the world functioned without the internet and I cannot think of a single thing the internet has done that makes it better. On individual levels it has been good for some but not so much for all. I do not believe in any way it has been an overall gain.

Perhaps you and I don't know much about it, but do you honestly believe planet earth is better now than it was in 1990?

Madamlulu · 30/08/2024 06:10

I agree. I hate it but particularly smart phones as feel you can't get away or a break ever. Strangely though more disconnected and isolated.

I do have one though and use it and constantly feel like an addict with it!

I miss chatting on the phone more than anything. It's only my parents and one friend that I feel I can call randomly without having to message first to arrange a call or just message whatever you want to say!. I tell my friends to phone me so they know it's ok to do so.

I'm 48.

xxSideshowAuntSallyxx · 30/08/2024 06:56

I think life was simpler back before the Internet.

Your source of news was a daily paper and the 1pm/6pm or 9/10pm news. Papers used to have a final edition so if something major happened after midnight it was on the final edition, or you'd find out from the Evening Standard. Now it's wall to wall, you can go on line 24 hours a day, 365 days a year and always read about the shit going on in the world. It's really depressing.

I don't think the constant news is good for people's mental wellbeing. I'm sure covid might have been less traumatic and scary(sorry probably not the right words but I hope people know what I mean) without the 24 hour news cover. If we only read about it once a day in the papers and saw the news twice a day but rolling news on TV and the Internet meant people could be in constant consumption of the doom and gloom.

I have fond memories of being 17 and waiting for Our Price to open to buy the newest Nirvana album on release day and then spending the day listening to it. I'm not sure the excitement is the same in waking up and putting Spotify on for the latest Swedish House Mafia album. Oasis doing their gigs next year have highlighted how much more invested we were in music back then. I miss actual record shops, so glad book shops are still about.

I do think it's been good though, it's enabled people to stay in touch more easily, opened doors to other countries, made working life easier.

But as the tech has got better, the more available we are, the less time we spend on our 'own', sometimes I hate that I'm always contactable but I can't seem to leave my phone at home when I go out or just in the other room when I'm at home. I feel like I might miss something if I do.

LoremIpsumCici · 30/08/2024 09:10

Sethera · 29/08/2024 17:26

Apart from the Falklands War all that is happening in 2024!

We have record low unemployment- it’s 1/3rd what it was in the 1970s. Terrorism was much worse then. Crime is also lower. Fewer businesses are going under than back then. Racist gangs roaming the streets was much worse- the police often turned a blind eye.

AgileGreenSeal · 30/08/2024 09:11

it has brought some good things, but many, many bad ones.

On balance it’s been definitely negative.

LoremIpsumCici · 30/08/2024 09:20

LindorDoubleChoc · 29/08/2024 20:37

Hmm hmm. And the internet solved all those (perpetual) issues - how? How many wars have there been since the Falklands?

I'm not imagining the past as some sort of Utopia. Just that the world functioned without the internet and I cannot think of a single thing the internet has done that makes it better. On individual levels it has been good for some but not so much for all. I do not believe in any way it has been an overall gain.

Perhaps you and I don't know much about it, but do you honestly believe planet earth is better now than it was in 1990?

The internet isn’t meant to have solved terrorism, unemployment and wars. Who in their right mind would even think that?! The point was to counter those saying the internet has made the world worse because of war, terrorism, unemployment, crime, porn, grooming yada yada by saying no we had all those things before the internet and in the immediate run up to the internet it was worse than it is now.

Yes the planet is alot better than it was 1990 as a whole.
World hunger and poverty have massively reduced,
Environmental efforts mean the planet is objectively cleaner now than in 1990
Advances in medicine & vaccine roll outs worldwide, mean lower child mortality rates, and people living longer.
More girls are being educated and have reproductive rights than in 1990
The USSR collapsed without the need for a nuclear war and so now all of Eastern Europe is worlds better than they were behind the iron curtain
The internet has narrowed the gender pay gap by making it possible for mothers to WFH and have flexible working.
The internet has reduced business air travel- further helping the environment.
The internet means we can more easily spot propaganda in reporting about world events
The internet means more social mobility as it is now possible to work and take a degree course online outside business hours.
The internet keeps families and friends in touch so you are not losing your support networks due to moves.

LoremIpsumCici · 30/08/2024 09:22

RaraRachael · 29/08/2024 18:06

Stuff like online banking is fine as long as you have good mobile signal. I can only rarely receive texts so I'm stuck when trying to do something that requires a one time pass code by text. My only solution - to visit the nearest branch 25 miles away. A pain in the arse and then what do I do when they inevitably close that branch?

Why don’t you have wifi at home?

LunaNorth · 30/08/2024 09:26

There are some positives, and I embrace them as enthusiastically as the next person.

But I’d press a button to make it go away in a heartbeat, due to its effect on the human brain (no concentration span, no creativity fostered by boredom), social interaction and polarisation. It’s a swamp for the worst kind of proclivities and perversions to breed and be normalised, too. And it gives companies and bad actors a direct route into our homes and our children. Just no.

LucasNorth1 · 30/08/2024 09:26

The internet has fundamentally transformed societal dynamics, presenting both significant opportunities and emerging threats. This briefing evaluates the dual impact of the internet, focusing on its contributions to societal development as well as the associated risks, with particular emphasis on security implications relevant to MI5 operations.

Positive Developments: The internet has accelerated global connectivity, democratizing access to information and enabling unprecedented communication and collaboration across borders. It has been instrumental in fostering innovation, enhancing educational access, and driving economic growth through digital trade and commerce. The ability to disseminate information rapidly has also supported democratic movements and provided a platform for marginalized voices, contributing to a more informed and engaged global populace.

Emerging Threats: Despite its benefits, the internet has introduced several challenges that pose risks to societal stability and national security. The proliferation of misinformation and disinformation campaigns has the potential to undermine public trust and sow discord within communities. Cybercrime, including hacking, identity theft, and ransomware attacks, has escalated, threatening both individuals and critical infrastructure. Additionally, the internet has facilitated the growth of extremist networks, enabling radicalization and recruitment on a global scale, often below the radar of traditional intelligence measures.

The internet's role in social fragmentation is another concern, as online echo chambers reinforce ideological divides and contribute to polarization. Social media platforms, while beneficial in many ways, have also been linked to negative mental health outcomes, particularly among younger populations, increasing vulnerability to manipulation and exploitation.

Security Implications: For MI5, the internet represents a double-edged sword. While it offers valuable tools for intelligence gathering and surveillance, it also requires a heightened focus on cybersecurity, counter-disinformation efforts, and the monitoring of online radicalization trends. The digital landscape's rapid evolution demands continuous adaptation of strategies to mitigate the associated risks effectively.

The internet's impact on society is profound, offering both advancement and challenges. For MI5, understanding and addressing the security implications of these developments is critical. A balanced approach, leveraging the internet's benefits while proactively countering its threats, will be essential in maintaining national security and societal cohesion in the digital age.

Babbahabba · 30/08/2024 09:35

In mid 40s and got access to the internet/a mobile late teens. I think it's very tricky to gauge. Society changes anyway. Some things were better, some things worse. All the major technological advances- TVs, landline phones, radios etc changed society.

Crikeyalmighty · 30/08/2024 10:21

@xxSideshowAuntSallyxx I agree about news- we were living in Copenhagen during covid so I wasn't watching news of any kind- kept up via Twitter and sky news. One very big difference was they didn't have 'any' of these daily press conferences of doom - it was about every 3 weeks and just to change any rules etc

RaraRachael · 30/08/2024 10:22

Why don’t you have wifi at home?

I do have Wifi at home. The issue I have is that my mobile signal is pathetic in the house. I can't make calls on my mobile, nor can I receive texts. Many companies send you a one time password by text to access their services which I can't receive or it comes through hours later when the 10 minute completion window has elapsed.

HowardTJMoon · 30/08/2024 12:16

@RaraRachael a lot of more recent smartphones support wifi calling so that when you're in an area with poor mobile signal the calls and texts will automatically switch to running over wifi. You'll need an appropriate SIM card, too, as not all mobile networks support it. I use an iD Mobile SIM in my phone for this as the mobile signal at work is dreadful and wifi calling works brilliantly.

00BonneMaman00 · 30/08/2024 21:19

It's a nightmare.
Let's switch it off now!

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