To ask older Mumsnetters if you think the internet has improved or denigrated society?

[Appalonia]

I'm 59 so grew up without the internet. Although I accept it's created a lot of good things, I can't help but think that's it's also created huge issues in the world that just wouldn't have existed without it. For example:

Violent, misogynistic porn that's available to children
Incel culture
The death of the high street
No one talking on the phone anymore, and young people refusing to answer the phone
Revenge porn
Musicians finding it v hard to make a living due to streaming
Anxiety in young people
Trans ideology and young pp being groomed online
The lack of customer service from companies
Loneliness and isolation
The polarisation of political views
Fake news

And so much more. Obviously we can't go back, but sometimes I think we had no idea what would happen when we unleashed this onto the world... Curious to know what other pp think...?

I enjoy being able to find information quickly. But I hate that people's lives are passing them by as they are glued to their phone.
My DH and I have just got smartphones we are very late to the party (66 and 70). His is new and mine is an old one of dds.
Just today we were out, I was driving and while queuing in traffic I was watching a farmer do something funny in his field and turned to tell dh to find him looking at his phone completely oblivious to what's going on around him.
It's a shame when you see people filming events instead of properly taking part.

I wouldn't want to lose the positives from having it in professional or educational environments - the communication and knowledge sharing aspects are amazing.

The dogshit aspects mostly come from individual behaviour, in private life.

I'd happily forego TV streaming to also lose the awful things.

Also, I do get the massive positives too!

There are lots of pros and cons. I'm curious as to why you think it's made people more isolated and lonely though as I would say the opposite.

I think it's brilliant and people over focus on the negatives; especially the media. It's not a click baitable news story to say "how the internet improves your life!"

Therefore the general public over focus on this.

I think in terms of helping connect people who might have not had others the same as them it has been great. Apart from that it can fuck off.

I’m also 59. I think it can be good for information finding but overall negative in the effect on personal interactions and responsibility.

Personally, the biggest change is that people don't phone anymore, just send a whatsapp/ text message. Also, I used to be involved in a self development organisation where we hosted huge trainings. We had 3 big team meetings beforehand, where people could get to know each other. The last team meeting I went to, only 7 people turned up because of email etc. I made so many friends through this organisation, but now, you would never really get to know anyone, except superficially.

All of this. If I had a genie in a bottle...

Personally, the biggest change is that people don't phone anymore, just send a whatsapp/ text message

OK. That's a change in behaviour. What makes you consider it a change for the worse? Especially when you consider that while someone might have called someone else a couple of times a week, they're now very likely to be exchanging multiple whatsapp messages a day?

I think you can apply the same rule to the Internet as you can to the sea and to sex; all very powerful forces that can be wonderful but can be terrible too depending on how you interact with them!

Pre-Internet, I remember Sundays in the seventies in the north that were tedious in the extreme! We weren’t all dancing around a maypole that’s for sure. As a child I remember it being extremely tedious! There was absolutely nothing happening.

And op you can’t really talk about the internet being solely responsible for the spread of ideology and ignore the Second World War!

As for loneliness, maybe for the older generation who aren’t very familiar with computers, but I think in general the Internet has made sports, the arts, travel, hobbies etc much more accessible to a much wider variety of people.

The information everyone has at their fingertips is just phenomenal and it has democratised learning and the exchange of know-how.

Honestly, we are at the Wild West stages now but we need to ensure that legal frameworks are in place to make the Internet a safe place for dc. Not easy but we need to try and play a part and campaign where we can for privacy laws and responsible use.

But honestly, the same problems exist in the world as they ever did. The Internet is just a different conduit of social malaise, and it inhabits a space that newspapers once did, and before that, gossiping on the village green. There is still war, exploitation and pestilence. Nowadays, we just know more about them all!

Really?

No more zoom, Google maps, shopping delivery, booking events, research, banking, WhatsApp, product comparison, news, email, streaming, books, transport tickets etc?

It's not 'the internet' so much as social media. 'The internet' was great in the early 90s when it was strictly the domain of students, academics, scientists and tech geeks and it was considered something of an embarrassment to spend any time on it. It only went to shite when the masses started using it, and then the rise of social media was the final death knell.

Yes, I am on the internet now - might as well make the most of it now we are stuck with it - but if I could swap to an internet-free world, I would. Or even better, freeze the development and usage of the internet circa 1995.

I don't think we're being negative, more looking at the impact the internet/ social media has had on society, from people who grew up without it, and can see the impact it has had and whether overall, it has benefited society or not?

I remember back when people were complaining about early cell phones. There was a fear that people would be expected to be available all the time, especially to their employers.

People poo pooped them and said "you can always choose not to have one." Yeah, right.

They are convenient, and addictive, but I don't think they have made people happier or healthier. Most are actually less well informed and know less. And they create the potential for those who control the infrastructure to control vast swathes of people.

That's a bit like asking if knives have improved life or not. The answer to your question, for me is that yes, the Internet has absolutely improved life. The way its been used by some has been harmful, but that's a problem with the human user not the tool itself.

And they create the potential for those who control the infrastructure to control vast swathes of people.

And that's different from, say, News International's business model how, exactly?

Yes I think alot of people's mental health is poorer (more due to smartphones than Internet per se as it would probably be fine if we just accessed a computer every so often) I am definitely addicted to my phone and feel I have to be quite strong to leave it at home. As an overthinker it's terrible as I am always looking up news etc.

I see what you mean. I look at it the other way and how much easier it is to stay in touch and update via email and social media and FaceTime now families tend to be more spread apart. It was no doubt a godsend for many during lockdowns. I also think a lot of young people end up less isolated as those who don't fit in can find a tribe online. Adults have other sounding boards like this place.

An example I personally dislike is the convenience of click and collect. I run a coffee shop and this year I’ve noticed the rise in c&c use in some of the younger generation. They’ll literally come in, avoid any kind of eye contact and order their drinks through their phone and then collect without a word and sit back down. Where’s the social skills in that? These are 16/17 year old kids that should be finding their way in life and learning to converse with strangers. We’ve always been a place that cherry picks our staff from customers we get on with and think they have a good personality match to our team, it’s getting harder to do when they’re hiding behind technology!

The problem is that it's getting to the stage where you are forced to do things online because alternatives are being taken away. Business are trying to hurry us into a cashless society. You have to hand over your personal details to all sorts of organisations to do the most mundane of things.