To ask older Mumsnetters if you think the internet has improved or denigrated society?

[Appalonia]

I'm 59 so grew up without the internet. Although I accept it's created a lot of good things, I can't help but think that's it's also created huge issues in the world that just wouldn't have existed without it. For example:

Violent, misogynistic porn that's available to children
Incel culture
The death of the high street
No one talking on the phone anymore, and young people refusing to answer the phone
Revenge porn
Musicians finding it v hard to make a living due to streaming
Anxiety in young people
Trans ideology and young pp being groomed online
The lack of customer service from companies
Loneliness and isolation
The polarisation of political views
Fake news

And so much more. Obviously we can't go back, but sometimes I think we had no idea what would happen when we unleashed this onto the world... Curious to know what other pp think...?

Internet is ok it's smart phones that give us constant access to ot that l think is the issue

I’m 58 and had access to the web in 1994 as worked in a University, less than 1% of the world had access at that point. DH and I were both doing some programming though we are not programmers. At that point I embraced it wholeheartedly.

It still has many excellent uses but overall it’s actually made the world a far worse place. Too much navel gazing, people with horrendous views finding each other, internet dating is a cess pit overall according to friends and has changed relationships forever, art of conversation lost as people don’t wonder anymore they just find out and misogyny is far worse because of it, extremism of all sorts encouraged.

@Sethera that was exactly DH and I, he had access to email back in 1989.

Ah the sound of dial up, I remember we were the first people in our road with Wi-Fi. I also remember when neighbours started to get it and almost none of them secured their networks.

I do agree with some of the things that you have listed. Overall however, the internet is a wonder to me. I love being able to access all sorts of information instantly. What the population is of countries I'm visiting, what forms their GDP. All sorts of stats , fact checking and huge amounts of help in my job as well as general interest. It's an amazing resource to educate and learn and communicate with other people across the globe. For example, we would have to rely on biased pres to know what is going on in different countries; war and elections etc. With the internet, we can actually access people and reports ourselves. Sure, this comes with it's own bias and agenda, but at least I have a basic choice.

Honestly though, we relied on awfully biased press for our news growing up (the Times, daily mail). I think you have your rose tinted glasses on to say that violent porn, misinformation and deeply embedded misogyny is related to the internet. Many of these things are so entrenched in our society that the internet is just a platform for it. If anything, I am much less exposed to daily frank misogyny than I was in the 70s. As are my younger colleagues, with mat and carers leave etc enshrined.

The thing about porn is, back in the day it was top shelf nudie mags or what would be called soft porn videos. Now, young teens, and children can easily access the most vile, abusive images, including choking, gagging, spitting, slapping, double anal and other horrid, disrespectful things. This is no way to teach our young people that this is what sex is. And there have been cases of v young boys raping girls which have been directly caused by these dreadful images. This did NOT happen previously, and you are naive to think otherwise. Just because you personally haven't seen it ( and the why would you? ), doesn't mean it's not happening.

48 here.
Would totally switch the whole fuckin thing off tomorrow if I could!!!

vastly improved travel.
negatively impacted on young peoples' well being due to everything from "unfriending" to porn

I'm dreading the teen years and social media

It's a totally mixed bag as you say OP

On the positive- I've found places like mumsnet to be a great source of info and support and yes entertainment

I love the fact I can send my son £50 till payday at the touch of a button

I can see pictures and reviews of holidays I'm booking or restaurants etc

On the down side- all the things you stated-men having access at the touch of a button to book hookers, watch awful degrading shit , be getting a buzz messaging all sorts of they get bored. I know shit has always happened but it's now so easy to do and easy to hide- it's ruined a lot of relationships and trust

People spreading total bullshit as if it's fact - some of it with bigger malicious forces ( and money) behind it -

@Appalonia yep and let's face it if in the early 90s you were married (or partnered up) to someone who was cracking open a top shelf mag 3 times week or regularly popping on dirty videos you probably would have thought they were an utter sleaze and got rid- now it's all on phones and can be far more 'hidden/secretive - whereas you were more likely to have found mags or videos around at some point - and yet it seems we are meant to be cool with it - and yes I know some women watch it too -

I'm 55 so grew up and completed my first degree entirely without the internet and mobile phones.

I spend hours a day on the interwebs so would be hypocritical to say that it's a bad thing. It's also made things like organising travel, communication and research infinitely easier. And as someone who has lived abroad, in various countries, it has also allowed me to keep in touch with people I might otherwise have lost contact with.

On the other hand, however, i do wonder about its overalll impact on society, for many of the reasons mentioned above. Whether it's been a net positive or a net negative is impossible to say but there is no way I would want to go back to a pre internet world.

Yes, I also sometimes look back to the 00s as a sort of golden age of the internet.

It helped you to keep in touch and read about 'stuff', but it hadn't totally taken over life. Social media barely existed, apps weren't really a 'thing' and we didnt have the spectre of AI hanging over us. Mobile phones were just that, phones. I remember when camera phones first came out. I thought they were incredibly sophisticated, even though they were so basic by today's standards.

In some ways it's had a negative impact and in other ways a positive impact. I wish it was around when I was a teen, it would've been easier to stay in touch with my classmates as we were in military families and moved around a lot.

And what is this trend of young people posting tiktoks of themselves crying in their cars about all these imagined slights? ( tbf this is more an American thing, but I find it incredible how young pp seem to want to get attention/ social credence from victimhood, surely this is not healthy? )

I think it is the way people use it we use it for good so I think it's good if people want to use it for bad that is on them

I do agree that Twitter/X has really changed things. I've had personal experience of events that I've seen happening either in real life through footage on X and then seeing how it's been misrepresented in the MSM. ( or completely ignored )

However, this is not a good thing, as so many pp don't trust the MSM anymore, this is a really dangerous place to be, as not only can bad actors come in to push their agenda, but I fear, if there was a genuine emergency, a lot of pp just wouldn't take it seriously.I

We need, as a society to have a shared definition of what the truth is.

Are you very keen on that business model, then?

I was actually thinking mainly of physical infrastructure, being dependent on it for so much is quite a vulnerability.

Yes that is true @Appalonia. I am one of those people. The rise of the Internet seems to have coincided with the decline in standards of journalism in the msm (eg describing men committing crime as women) - even if you weren't on sm you could see something amiss. There are also whole areas not discussed or covered up - if you follow reporting closely you can be left wanting more info which leads to twitter x etc.

I think the problems started with smartphones.

Having all that information and connection is fantastic but do we really need it in our pockets 24/7?

It could be monitored and restricted, particularly for children if it wasn't available like that.

I hear my kids, in their 30s, saying they will restrict their children's use, while being glued to their phones.

Children are 8 and 2.
How can that possibly work?

It won't.

"Do as I say, not what I do."!?!?!

I don't consider myself old but I'd rather be without it.

I opt out of quite a lot of it.

It would have been awful when I was at school and being bullied. It would never have ended.

When younger would have had to censor myself due to the fear of pictures getting online.

It was ok in the noughties- access to searching for info on a pc at home or in a library. No expectation of being available 24/7. Basically pre smartphones.

The younger generation are saying they won't give their DCs the access we have. The backlash is coming but we are all so dependent!

I actively avoid it where possible- I dont do online shopping. I use minimal SM, just this fb & x. I go into my bank. I read guidebooks and maps. I read real books not audiobooks or kindle books. I buy CDs. I've never downloaded or bought music online.

I don't like zoom and try to go to events IRL rather than watching online.

The downsides of porn, mental ill health, misogyny, political extremism are plagues on society.

You can easily restrict your children's access to mobile phones while still having a phone yourself. I didn't let my children have phones until they were teenagers and their Internet usage was monitored.

A parent letting their 6yo have unlimited access to the Internet is as much a parenting failure as letting that 6yo play with matches.

When younger would have had to censor myself due to the fear of pictures getting online.

I do this now. I used to be really care free never minded what others thought of me or my behaviour. Now I'm really quiet and introverted. There have been studies that show smartphones inhibit natural risk taking behaviour in teenagers, it's quite worrying.

Recently my iPhone broke and I managed without internet for a few weeks. I mainly missed it for on- line banking and shopping.
But there are worrying downsides especially for the young or impressionable. In the 1960s I remember reading a teenage magazine . It was well known and very popular. I was a teenager but was either young for my age or it was aimed at slightly older girls but it was still inappropriate. One column was " written" by a young male pop star. I took everything he " said" as gospel truth. For example he said that boys didn't like girls with short hair. I remember feeling so upset as mine was very short .
More worryingly he also advises that girls should encourage young men sexually ,so they don't feel let down. A female model was interviewed and apparently said when asked about her favourite food said " I try not to eat" if I can remember this 50 years on ( and it affected me terribly at the time) I wonder what the effects of Internet misinformation are today .
It is good to have so much information at our fingertips but on balance I think it has made us less able to interact in real life . I guess we are stuck with it now.

In some ways it's great - it's given people access to the information they need.

But on the whole, it's been destructive and damaging.

Social media in particular.

Interesting thread, I'm book marking it to read properly later, but I agree with everything on your list in your OP.

I doubt you'll find anyone who was an adult before the internet who will say that life is better with it!

There were many social problems in recent history and plenty of improvements in women's rights, LGB rights and so on, but I don't think the internet has anything to do with this. The seeds for both movements were sown in the 1960s and 70s.

It's our deal with the devil.
It's amazing what we can do now. It's simplified so many things like keeping in touch with people, banking and shopping. We can watch tv that we want to watch. Apply for jobs and so on.
The downside in every day life is social media in my opinion. Its made many people depressed, anxious, resentful, angry and even suicidal.
Easy access to porn is a worry. Any depraved deviant explicit material is available. Likewise, any depraved deviant person can find validation and feel normalised.
Racist and misogynistic views are also normalised.
No one is reading books and human interaction is waning. This is leading to isolation and lack of empathy and encouraging anger.
As a society, we're divided more than ever along so many different lines - race, religion, political leanings, personal identity, sexual identity, gender identity and along every viewpoint like anti vaxxer, liberal snowflake, remoaner, woke, terf, ally, I could probably go on all day.

Because of where our anger is directed, we're not directing our anger at the right places to hold government accountable.

Health care is failing? Blame immigrants (but also thank immigrants for propping it up)

Education failing? Blame parents (but you should be more like those hardworking immigrant kids)

Prices too high? Blame the bigots that voted for brexit (never mind the billions of profit being made)

Energy costs too high? Blame the selfish people for doing normal things and causing a climate crisis (also, don't look at the huge profits)