To ask older Mumsnetters if you think the internet has improved or denigrated society?

[Appalonia]

I'm 59 so grew up without the internet. Although I accept it's created a lot of good things, I can't help but think that's it's also created huge issues in the world that just wouldn't have existed without it. For example:

Violent, misogynistic porn that's available to children
Incel culture
The death of the high street
No one talking on the phone anymore, and young people refusing to answer the phone
Revenge porn
Musicians finding it v hard to make a living due to streaming
Anxiety in young people
Trans ideology and young pp being groomed online
The lack of customer service from companies
Loneliness and isolation
The polarisation of political views
Fake news

And so much more. Obviously we can't go back, but sometimes I think we had no idea what would happen when we unleashed this onto the world... Curious to know what other pp think...?

For the people who think overall it is positive - what do you think society was missing before being online?

To me, I knew I could function perfectly fine without being able to pick up my phone and google how old a particular actor is, or what else he's been in before, when watching TV (one of my most common google searches). I could pay with coins for parking, I could go shopping for clothes on my local High Street or shopping centre. Business thrived, people had jobs and made money, you could take a photo with a camera, you could place small ads in the local paper, you could phone someone on the landline. Everything functioned well enough.

You've made me nostalgic. I'm glad I grew up without it, but it's sometimes a bit sad to remember because we're not going back.

Having a private, safe space

There are no private or safe spaces on the Internet.

Oh god yes - I've some acquaintances (who happen to be related to each other) who've done facebook post of themselves sobbing about 'issues'. They may well have problems but videoing yourself for likes isn't a solution.

what do you think society was missing before being online?

Easily found knowledge and connection. For example I was in an abusive relationship in my 20s and had no way of checking if it was abusive or what help was available to me.

Now I could ask in a forum, find domestic abuse helplines and organisations etc

People with disabilities can find charities online and find friendship with people in the same predicament.

People who can't get out can get shopping delivered, join forums for any interest, have online therapy and so on.

We have political movements online such as #metoo where women, connected through the internet, had a global conversation about sexual harassment and assault.

Everyday sexism is another online movement where women document their experiences of microaggessions and daily life under patriarchy.

Injustices can be filmed such as that woman who was shot by the police in the States recently or Floyd who was murdered. Sparking the BLM movement.

We can document people's lives under oppressive regimes, watch what's going on in war zones such as Gaza, keep abreast of ongoing news such as the current unrest in India.

We can fact check what the media are telling us by exploring other news sources and finding out what's going on in the area.

We can instantly connect with friends and family in other countries.

We can do degrees online, online courses and training.

We can easily research anything: treatment for medical conditions, current research, history, sofas.

We can find out stock levels in shops saving a journey, compare prices, order online which is great for people in rural areas, those who can't afford transport or the immobile.

We can check opening and closing times, book tickets, search for activities and events in a few minutes.

We can stream films, TV series, documentaries and videos instantly. We don't have to go to Blockbuster videos and trawl through hundreds of films. We can read reviews and search through thousands of choices.

We can book plane tickets, hotels, activities exactly to our own specification anytime we want.

We can view houses, compare prices, have virtual tours without leaving our sitting rooms.

We can take virtual tours of anywhere in the world without leaving home.

We can arrange events, invite people and start new groups.

We can conduct businesses and hire people anywhere in the world, we can work from home.

Do you want me to go on?

There are good and bad parts I guess. I love shopping online, and having information at my fingertips. I especially love texting and FaceTime - 30 years ago on my university year abroad I felt very alone at times, and saw my family when I came home at Christmas, and had a phone call from a on street phone box once a week. My youngest has just left for her sojourn abroad, and I see her face every day and get regular texts, and we feel so much more connected despite the 4000 miles separating us.
I do wish social media didn't have such a hold on us though. My 12 yo niece barely looks up from her phone, and my sister just accepts that as normal. I employ a lot of young people and some seem absolutely unable to communicate unless it's via a device.

I remember the first time I booked a holiday online - I was convinced something was going to go wrong - nowadays I do it without a second thought.

However, I'm glad I brought up my children before the advent of watching endless YouTube videos of nonsense and shite on TikTok.
The idea of 8 year old girls watching skin care videos and demanding premium skincare products as presents is the sort of thing that this is responsible for.

Saying that, my daughter would have been told a firm No.

I hate the performing for the camera that people do, I hate people over sharing everything on Insta and some young women absolutely wasting their abilities pouting into phones , however, I am being a right old misery and there are benefits too

"I could pay with coins for parking, I could go shopping for clothes on my local High Street or shopping centre. Business thrived, people had jobs and made money, you could take a photo with a camera, you could place small ads in the local paper, you could phone someone on the landline. Everything functioned well enough."

I'm glad I don't need to carry the right coins anymore. Parking apps need to improve but I don't need to find the cash before I park.

I'm glad I don't need to traipse around town trying clothes on in awkward changing rooms and then traipsing back to the shop to return it. All would have involved a car or public transport journey to do so.

There were recessions before internet shopping. So businesses still thrive, just different businesses and people have different jobs linked to them.

I didn't take my camera out unless for a particular reason. I then had to send the film off for processing to get back, probably, a handful of decent photos. Now filling up wardrobes and lofts.

I can place a small ad on multiple forums or social media platforms now. For free. More people will see it.

The landline meant I was confined to taking calls in my house alone. And no one else in the household could make another call.

I'm fully aware of pluses and minuses with wider internet usage but I really do hate selective nostalgia.

This isn't "selective nostalgia" whatever the fuck that is. This is saying that ordinary day to day life was perfectly livable without the internet for the benefit of younger people who can't remember it.

I can place a small ad on multiple forums or social media platforms now. For free. More people will see it.

Who places ads on loads of different forums, they must be mad to do this and invite loads of scammers in. Placing ads on these places is a lot more trouble than it's worth.

Re musicians- it is easier for new acts to reach an audience without the strangle hold of the studios

It is possible to wfh allowing a better work life balance and reducing the need for people to live in and around cities and also better opportunities for disabled workers.

Absolutely agree @SwedishEdith
I don't miss having to take a half day off work to go to the bank if I needed to do anything more than taking cash out of the hole in the wall.
I don't miss only being able to see the details of my bank account once month when I got a paper statement.
I don't miss having to drive a couple of hours to buy anything other than what was stocked in the small shops in the small High Street in my very small town.
I don't miss having to spend all day in the library struggling to do a literature search with the Index Medicus and then waiting for the best part of a month for the article I needed from a journal the library didn't stock to arrive.
I don't miss having to ask the Medical Ilustration department to source images and make up physical slides for any presentation I needed to give, again, needing weeks or months notice.
I don't have particularly fond memories of having my first baby in the pre internet days and my only "support" being a weekly group run by a HV who was probably trained in the late 50s and where I was the only breastfeeding Mum.
My heart doesn't ache for the days when I had to get up at 4am to get the early train to London to listen to a lecture in person to fulfil my CPD requirements.
I don't long for the days when I had to physically go to the station to buy that ticket and when if the train was late and I missed my connection at Crewe I couldn't get the details of all the alternative routes within seconds.
I don't miss having to travel 200 miles to have a 5 minute review appointment with my son's consultant.
I'm glad my DS hasn't grown up feeling like he is the only kid in the world with his condition and that I can talk to other parents on the other side of the world about our shared experiences.
I'm glad my DH no longer has to drive tens of thousands of miles a year to attend meetings like the one he is currently having in the next room.
I'm glad our elderly frail relatives won't have to wait for months to see photos of our DD's forthcoming wedding but can instead watch it live from home.
And much more.
The Internet does indeed pose huge risks, but it has also made our lives much better in many ways and it's ridiculous to deny it.

Society has gone to shit and the internet has played a big part in that. It’s utterly depressing to see babies plugged in to phones.

And we wonder why there is an explosion of mental health issues in kids?

That's not the internet, that's bad parenting.

I think on balance the internet has done more good than bad.

Many of the bad items on your list existed pre-internet or were not caused by the internet existing.

I am really happy we have it.

Ordinary day to day life was perfectly liveable at every stage of human prehistory and history. Old folks (my grandparents generation) when I were growing up had lived in the 1910s with no cars, no electricity, no indoor plumbing, and no phone in the house. Some of them complained about electricity ruining kids because they’d be staying up late playing records and dancing when at their age they were reading a character building book by candle light in 1912. They remembered commercial planes being so rare, the entire school would run outside to watch it fly overhead.

I think everyone knows that life was liveable in 1924, 1824, 1724, and on back to 10,000 BC and beyond.

@LindorDoubleChoc
Business thrived, people had jobs and made money,

That is not how I remember the 70s and 80s. Really high unemployment, businesses going under, terrorism, racist thugs roaming the streets, Falklands war.

I still think it wouldn't have taken British Gas nearly a year to sort out a correct electric bill and possibly use some meter readings before Internet like it has done now with all that computing and smartness at their fingertips.

The 70s was particularly bad. We had huge unemployment, a recession and nearly went bankrupt. We also had a problem with gangs and the far right. It was awful for women too. (When hasn't been)

Having to order a meal in a restaurant on an app is a crock of shit. We tried to order Sunday lunch - choose your vegetables, choose your potatoes etc etc.
If a place has app only ordering, we walk out.

This perfectly exemplifies the overreach of technology. It takes twice as long to download an app, go back forth ordering on it, making sure you tick all the potential allergy boxes than it does to scan the menu with your eyes, speak to the server and say no nuts please. And if there's a glitch in the interface between your not as up to date as it should be phone or the 5G is playing up due to the weather it just adds to the frustration all round. I too vote with my feet.

Of course it was liveable.

It’s just better with the Internet. No need to traipse around busy shops. Easier to find out what’s happening in the local area. Don’t have to make excruciating phone calls - can just text / WhatsApp. Can watch, read and listen to an unlimited amount of content and have all the information you could ever want at your fingertips.

Twitter / X is a cesspit, but that says more about human nature than technology.

Yes, I leave too. I hate that.

I prefer it - much easier to have time to choose what you want rather than trying to explain changes to the server / attract the server’s attention to order or pay.