Page 18 | An insight into the mindset of someone who is persistently late.

Pluntolo · 27/08/2024 10:43

CatrionaBalfour · 27/08/2024 10:42

Yes, I've lost patience - the trouble is they were chairing the meeting, so we had to wait.

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Then I'd have left at the time the meeting was due to finish! Which I've also done - learnt that from my first ever boss.

Namechangedforthis25 · 27/08/2024 10:43

deviantfeline · 27/08/2024 02:39

There's always loads of posts on AIBU about people who hate those who are persistently late and how there no excuse for it. Also lots of people claiming 'time blindness' or inability to plan that causes it.

I'm often late. I hate it but my brain doesn't seem to be able to calculate periods of time in a way that means I can plan appropriately. Today was one of those even though I thought I totally had this. Reflecting on what went wrong here's a timeline.

I needed to get a train at 12pm to a meeting. They are once an hour and so couldn't miss it. I set an alarm at 11am that told me to go and get ready to leave for the station. It's a 3 minutes drive and a 2 minute walk from the car park. I know that at this time it's hard to get a parking spot so I factor in time to find one. I'll leave at 11.40 ish then. I spent the morning working from home.

11- alarm goes off. I think oh I've got loads of time and carry on working thinking I'll stop at 11.15 and get myself ready.
11.15 - think I'll finish the email I'm writing
11.23 - finish email and pack bag
Realise my make up and hair need a touch up and I've got loads of time so do that
11.32 - result. I'm done and ready to go with time to spare. This is easy! Find coat and shoes, locate car and door keys, put cups in dishwasher, find umbrella as it's now raining and my phone charger, kiss dog goodbye and give her a treat, lock up house.
Get in car. Somehow it's now 11.47?! How the hell did that happen? It was 11.32 wasn't it? Fuck fuck fuck.
11.52 - arrive at car park having had to stop at a zebra for 2 mins for loads of people crossing. Hadn't factored in the high street would busy as it's midday.
No car parks as predicted! Drive back up the street and finally find one. It's 11.58. Grab my stuff and sprint and get on the train as the doors are closing.

Despite my planning i screwed it up again. I've noticed that I have a time blindness for the time it takes between 'I'm ready' and actually going. In my mind that would take 30 seconds yet it somehow took 15 minutes?!

Its almost worse when I leave plenty time as my brain starts telling me I've got time to do other stuff rather then just leaving! Also I can't visualise the time passing since I looked at the time at 11.32 and getting in the car. That time seems to be the black spot for me to time manage with any ability.

Crisis only slightly averted but I'm soo cross with myself. So you 'on timers'. What would you have done differently and what was my biggest error?

I was this person when I used regular tubes - what’s the worst that can happen if I miss it, there would be one just a couple of mins after - and then another and another….

it was disorganisation, wishful thinking and actually pretty selfish

but now I’ve moved somewhere where if I miss our train I’m screwed - there isn’t one for 30 mins in some cases. So I work backwards from that and add on a contingency - and whatever happens I leave at that time. Now I’m the early one and it’s so much more relaxed

in your scenario you should have put your alarm on for 10.50 and by 11 know that it’s “now or never”

TwitchyNibbles · 27/08/2024 10:47

blackbird77 · 27/08/2024 10:29

Firstly, you need to get yourself into the mindset that ‘if you’re on time, you’re late’.

Mistake 1:
Your first mistake was getting the 12pm train which would get you in on time for your very important meeting. If I had an extremely important meeting/job interview/appointment to attend, I would get (at the minimum) the bus/or train BEFORE the bus or train that got me in just on time. I would assume that there is a reasonable possibility that the bus or train could be cancelled or delayed. By getting in an earlier one than needed, I have accounted for this possibility. The benefit of making my crucial meeting/appointment outweighs the cost of having to hang around for a bit by getting to my destination slightly earlier.

Mistake 2:
If your train departed at 12.00pm and it takes an average of 10 minutes to drive there and 5 minutes to park, by leaving your house at 11.45, you are leaving it way too late! You don’t want to be strolling into the train station at 12pm when that’s the time the train departs! You should aim to be ON the platform at 11.50 at the latest. Don’t you want a good seat? Don’t you want to be in the right carriage? Do you want to have to run for closing doors and be sweaty? Don’t you want to make sure you have the right ticket and are on the right bit of the platform? If it takes an average of 10 minutes to drive there, you have to plan for 20 minutes due to unplanned traffic or unforeseen circumstances. Why assume you will find a perfect available parking space easily? You want to double or triple the 5 minutes to park. I would have left the house 11.20-11.30ish minimum to make that train. As a PP said, it’s bizarre how you look at your watch at 11.45 as you’re leaving and think “I’m bang on time”. The average person would be thinking at this point “I have 99% missed my train”.

You are not leaving yourself any buffer or contingency time at all for sub-optimal or unforeseen circumstances. This is something punctual people instinctively do. It takes an average of 20 minutes to drive from my boyfriends mothers house to ours However, she once did this drive in 8 minutes at 1am when there was no other cars/traffic on the street and made every green light. In her head, she now thinks this drive always takes 8 minutes despite the usual circumstances being nowhere near that. People who are chronically late are over-optimistic and think that travel or doing time always takes the quickest it has ever happened in instead of a cautious/conservative estimate or even an average estimate.

Mistake 3:
You didn’t stick to your plan you set yourself to combat your lateness habit. Your alarm you set to start getting ready went off at 11am. Why continue working at this point or give yourself extra non-urgent tasks to do during your get ready time (loading the dishwasher) when you KNOW you’re not good at perceiving the passing of time and are always late?

Here are some things that punctual people frequently do:

1) Build in contingency/buffer time to do things or get places. I know I like to daydream and leisurely scroll through my phone as I get ready so build this time into my get-ready time. If it takes me 10 minutes to walk to my hair salon from my house, I’ll give myself 20 minutes just in case the walk takes longe/ in case I'm
dawdling and also so I’m not strolling in just as my appointment starts. I want to relax a bit before. The more urgent the thing you are attending is, the more buffer time you need to put in.

2) Account for weather conditions. If it is raining or icy outside, you have to account for way more driving/travel time and time to defrost the car if needed. If it’s boiling hot, I might plan for more time to walk somewhere so I can go at a slower pace and not be hot and sweaty.

3) Amend your routine in real-time if something changes, not rigidly stick to it. It takes me exactly 60 minutes to shower, change, straighten my hair and have breakfast every morning before I leave the house for work. The other day, I spilt something on my dress and it took me 10 minutes to pick out a new outfit and change. I therefore had to cut 10 minutes from something else in my daily routine to ensure I left the house on time as usual. I didn’t do my 10-minute hair straighten. I tied it back. I left on time.

4) Plan in advance. Before I go to bed each night, I check my doors are locked, all appliances are off and everything is ready to go for the next day. This takes 90 seconds. I know where my keys and shoes are, my coat is on its peg, my umbrella and handbag and water bottle are by the door and my lunch is prepared in the fridge. This reduces cognitive load the next day and ensures I don’t waste any time looking for things. The more urgent the appointment, the more I plan in advance. You don’t want to be looking for your passport with two minutes to go before you have to leave for a flight! Likewise, check bus times and train times for the the following day and work backwards from there.

5) Make conservative/cautious estimates instead of liberal/optimistic ones. If it takes me an average of 30 minutes to curl my hair, I’ll budget around 35-40 for this task. Just because one day all the stars aligned and every curl fell into place the first time and it got done in 20 minutes does not mean this is the standard. Just because one day you found a perfect parking space just by the station in two minutes and jumped through a no-queue barrier and got on the nearest carriage to the barrier instantly all within 5 minutes does not mean it is usual. Assume finding a spot will be a struggle, assume there will be queues, assume once you get in the car, you’ll have to go back inside for a minutes and check you left enough water for your dog. Plan for extra time for circumstances out of your control.

Good luck OP!

@blackbird77 Your brain sounds as though it works exactly the same as mine! I'm sure my DH and DSIS see it as overkill but they do many of the things you describe that makes them late - not adjusting their getting ready plan or speeding up if they start to be running behind, not accounting for heavier traffic or potential train cancellations.

I think given my job over the years I have developed a pretty solid internal body clock where I have a good idea of roughly how much time has passed as I'm so used to working in 30 minute appointment blocks. It's also helped me to prioritise tasks and ask "have I got time to do x before my next client is due". If no and it's not vitally important it gets left for later and I do something quicker. This has developed over 20+ years though and I think there was a natural element to it that some people just don't have any will always struggle with.

EmeraldRoulette · 27/08/2024 10:48

Pluntolo · 27/08/2024 10:39

I wouldn't be waiting at a station for an hour because I'm not a complete mug, I would leave.

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I had a feeling I’d get a charming reply like that

if the person you’re waiting for has the theatre tickets etc, you obviously don’t make arrangements with them again but you’ve lost a lot of money if you just go home and miss the show.

this hasn’t happened to me for years but in my 20s a lot of people were stuck at work with no access to a phone so there were a couple of 30 min waits as well. How long would you give someone?

Pluntolo · 27/08/2024 10:52

EmeraldRoulette · 27/08/2024 10:48

I had a feeling I’d get a charming reply like that

if the person you’re waiting for has the theatre tickets etc, you obviously don’t make arrangements with them again but you’ve lost a lot of money if you just go home and miss the show.

this hasn’t happened to me for years but in my 20s a lot of people were stuck at work with no access to a phone so there were a couple of 30 min waits as well. How long would you give someone?

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I don't ever rely on known latecomers to have the tickets or what have you, for a start!

And as for how long I give, depends why they are late. My friend was really late to meet me the other day because her babysitter cancelled last minute. I was perfectly happy to wait for her for as long as she needed. When my sister is late because she was farting around changing her outfit 7 times I give her 10 minutes at most.

EmeraldRoulette · 27/08/2024 10:54

@Pluntolo i didn’t rely on a known latecomer, I never would

she was on time in the early days of our friendship but I began to see true colours later.

Shinyandnew1 · 27/08/2024 10:54

alarm goes off. I think oh I've got loads of time and carry on

And that’s your problem. People who aren’t late stop what they are doing and get ready!

LjSebs · 27/08/2024 10:55

MotherofGorgons · 27/08/2024 07:23

I absolutely refuse to believe that all latecomers have ADHD.

Agreed - I think the majority just try and use it as way to justify selfishness

godmum56 · 27/08/2024 10:57

Shinyandnew1 · 27/08/2024 10:54

alarm goes off. I think oh I've got loads of time and carry on

And that’s your problem. People who aren’t late stop what they are doing and get ready!

yup. Teach your brain that the alarm means a change of activity. No ifs or buts.

MorrisZapp · 27/08/2024 11:01

I grew up like this because my mum sits reading the paper until ten minutes before leaving for anything, then gets furious with everyone else when it can't be achieved in the time available and we all end up running across platforms or once, speeding up a motorway.

It affects others, because it causes them so much stress. You force people to 'manage' you by pretending that things start earlier than they actually do, then you get angry at being treated like a child.

It's unbearable. I think I have ADHD myself but I can read a clock and count backwards. So can every other literate, numerate person so I'm afraid I have no patience for it.

BucketBouquet · 27/08/2024 11:03

CatrionaBalfour · 27/08/2024 09:07

There seems to be a "resentment" of being early, which results in being late. Why resentful? Use the time to check your phone calendar or schedule, look at the news headlines or just chill and think lovely thoughts!

Why waste time “thinking lovely thoughts” when you could be doing something useful?

tribalmango · 27/08/2024 11:04

Redcrayons · 27/08/2024 10:33

personally I think that people who are "absolutely unable" to manage their time don't exist. They would have boiled kettles dry, overcooked food (maybe set it alight) be overwhelmed with parking tickets, have lost their jobs and so on. I do accept that some people have more difficulty with time management than others, just as some people are dyslexic. In both cases there are strategies that can help

You are right that there are strategies to help, but you are wrong that none of those things happen to people. Pans boiled dry, overcooked food, missed deadlines at work, insurance expiring. All happened to me, and I don’t think I’m that bad.

I've had periods where stuff like this has happened. It has not been down to poor time management, or not caring, but when I've been overwhelmed and distracted by whatever else is going on in my life (including a period of clinical depression).
It's a sign to me that I need to keep myself in check, or get some support (e.g. tell my boss what's going on, open up to those who love and care for me).

MrsWhattery · 27/08/2024 11:10

I think there are some people who see it as uncool to be rushing around trying to be on time, and/or who really do get some kind of (possibly not fully self-aware) power trip from everyone else having to wait for them. I knew someone like this who was Mr hey chill, relax, go with the flow and was always very very late. He once missed two planes in one day - the second one after having to rebook at the last minute having missed the first one. He could afford it so what’s the problem? His take was that people who minded being kept waiting were just uptight. I was indeed a lot more fucking uptight after waiting around for him! He was part of a friendship group so would keep a whole bunch of people waiting.

Yet he had a well-paid job that he managed to hold down so he could do it when it mattered. Not suggesting at all that OP is like this, but just agreeing it’s not always about time-blindness or executive function.

Obviouslyathrowaway · 27/08/2024 11:11

godmum56 · 27/08/2024 10:32

losing your job because of chronic unpunctuality matters as does losing your friends.

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Then maybe part of the 'solution' is compassion. If you know someone is going to be late because they always are and it bothers you so much, then YOU try and think up ways to stop being so annoyed. Agree a meet time that's half an hour early to the one you want. Or don't be so insistent on being there exactly on time yourself.

I understand that it's annoying but your chronic self-smugness is also irritating so I guess we all have our cross to bear

CatrionaBalfour · 27/08/2024 11:12

BucketBouquet · 27/08/2024 11:03

Why waste time “thinking lovely thoughts” when you could be doing something useful?

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Why isn't relaxing/chilling useful?

MorrisZapp · 27/08/2024 11:12

LeontineFrance · 27/08/2024 07:29

I work to a clock and stick with it like a German train. Never late and don't wait more than 15 minutes for friends who are late.

Lol, have you been to Germany recently? I have, their train schedule is a very rough guide at best. Switzerland can't cope and are banning them!

report.az/en/infrastructure/switzerland-bans-entry-of-chronically-late-german-trains/

MotherofGorgons · 27/08/2024 11:13

Ha ha love how punctuality has now become a " You Problem" for the punctual to solve.

ilovesushi · 27/08/2024 11:16

SandrenaIsMyBloodType · 27/08/2024 10:10

We’re a family of neurodivergent people and I realised that we all have slightly different interpretations of the phrase “ready to leave”. If I said we needed to be ready to leave at 11am, some family members would be running around looking for keys and chargers, some would be putting their shoes on etc.
I changed to saying “we need to be wheels through the gateposts at 11am” because everyone knows what that means and there is less last-minute chaos these days.
DH would need to put things in the dishwasher before leaving. I don’t. Nothing bad will happen if I come home to dirty dishes. Bad things will happen if I miss the train.

I am similar. I say "on the road at..." Otherwise it gets interpreted as "start thinking about leaving at...

tribalmango · 27/08/2024 11:16

Obviouslyathrowaway · 27/08/2024 11:11

Then maybe part of the 'solution' is compassion. If you know someone is going to be late because they always are and it bothers you so much, then YOU try and think up ways to stop being so annoyed. Agree a meet time that's half an hour early to the one you want. Or don't be so insistent on being there exactly on time yourself.

I understand that it's annoying but your chronic self-smugness is also irritating so I guess we all have our cross to bear

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I will show compassion if the always late person has a genuine reason that they have shared with me. You may not be able to change other people's behaviour, but you can change how you react to it. In this instance, my reaction would be to distance myself from the friendship, not show compassion.

sunseaandsoundingoff · 27/08/2024 11:17

The positive in it it's that you're generally an optimistic person.

I'm a pessimist and always assume the worst and even if I have 6 hours I still think I'm going to be late (even though I'm not).

My partner is like you and I love his optimism (generally!)

Beforetheend · 27/08/2024 11:22

I have adhd and I have to work really hard on time management.

One of the things that skews my perspective of time passing is that I have an ability to hyperfocus and get really high quality levels of work done up against a deadline or in a crisis. My creativity, energy, drive and focus skyrocket and that completely changes my perception of time. Rarely I’ve experienced everything around me moving in super slow motion at crucial moments - once in the car, during a near collision, and at other times in sports or when my dc we’re in danger.

But I don’t have a normal awareness of time passing. If I look at the clock and it’s 2.30, I sort of think it’s that time until I look again. And in situations that involve boredom and sitting perfectly still, like school, it feels like 20 minutes have passed but it’s only 2.31.

@deviantfeline try not to be too discouraged by the high moral ground people. You’ve identified your process really well and that’s the first step towards building better systems. It takes work, concentration and enough spare memory capacity to remember that you need to ignore your instincts at the crucial moment. It’s not easy. Most people don’t know how many mental processes you have to coordinate; it would be like trying to remember to breathe, keep your heart beating and your eyes blinking. You can get better at this but it’s not easy.

Obviouslyathrowaway · 27/08/2024 11:22

MotherofGorgons · 27/08/2024 11:13

Ha ha love how punctuality has now become a " You Problem" for the punctual to solve.

There are lots of people in the world and they're all different. You can choose to be perpetually unhappy or you can roll with the punches.

LucasNorth1 · 27/08/2024 11:23

ill admit ill need to vastly improve my time keeping skills as i tend to underestimate how long x will take then its opps it was eg 10 mins instead of eg 3

Mumofnarnia · 27/08/2024 11:26

Obviouslyathrowaway · 27/08/2024 11:11

Then maybe part of the 'solution' is compassion. If you know someone is going to be late because they always are and it bothers you so much, then YOU try and think up ways to stop being so annoyed. Agree a meet time that's half an hour early to the one you want. Or don't be so insistent on being there exactly on time yourself.

I understand that it's annoying but your chronic self-smugness is also irritating so I guess we all have our cross to bear

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No way, sorry! If someone if prattling around doing jobs in their house when they should be out the door on their way to meet me and leaving me sat around waiting for them because they decided that touching up their makeup and loading the dishwasher and searching for things they should have had ready hours ago is more important then I will not have compassion for them!

It is not anyone else’s problem that the other person is late. And yes people like this WILL lose friends and jobs. We use clocks and learn to tell the time for a reason. One of those reasons is so that you can arrange to meet somebody at a certain time or so that employers can arrange meetings where everyone will be in the same room at the same time. If one feels the rules somehow apply to them then I have no compassion.

The only exception for this is if someone has a disability- I could allow for that. But most disabled people I know already have support and strategies in place and carers to help them be on time

RootToVictory · 27/08/2024 11:27

I feel like some of this stuff would be solved by taking on board that being consistently late isn’t a personality trait but (barring disabilities) a choice. You’re a person with agency but you seem to see lateness as just something that happens to you rather than something you yourself do. I don’t mean this harshly- it’s very empowering to know that you’re actually in control.

Some of the posts on this thread remind me of a bloke I knew many years ago who claimed that being faithful came naturally to some people but not to him- not his choice, just how he was- and would therefore present his numerous infidelities to his GF as just things that somehow happened to him rather than things he himself did. He honestly meant to stay faithful but somehow it’s 11pm and he’s shagging some girl he met in a bar and honestly how did that happen? (Not claiming being late is as bad as being unfaithful- more just noting the similarities. I think it can be easier to see the abnegation of responsibility when it’s someone else.)