to honestley wonder, why have children if you WANT to work fulltime and are not prepared to make ANY sacrifices?

[milkgoddessmakesthefinestmilk]

i don't mean parents that HAVE to work to provide.

i mean the ones that choose to for no other reason, other than they enjoy their job so much.
if you enjoy your job so much, thats great.
but what i really do not understand is why have children?
no one makes any of these parents have children, you can go though life without having children.

this is 100% genuine question, i just do not get it.

no scottishmummy, what is wrong is the refusal to ask the question 'is this right?'

sorry i dont understand your point. What refusal are you discussing?

xenia, could you please respond to rivens post

what is 'accomplishment? Is setting up a company and earning scads of cash the be all and end all of 'accomplishment'?
I think my accomplishment of getting Bristol Children's Hospital to put in disabled accessible baths is a great accomplishment, and getting the council to adopt accessible policies. Oh, and the baby hedgehog I rescued last year and the old lady who fell over on the street, oh, and raising 4 kids.
'Accomplishment' is not measured by money IMO but by how many people who have helped and improved their lives. Maye Xenia has done that too but I get fed up with monetary reward being the measurement used of what you have acheived in your life.

i am actually on maternity leave at the moment but will not be returing to work as id rather be with my baby girl.
no i am not a shelf stacker(as you seem to suggest all sahms are), or the chief executive of some global corporation.

i am a hubble pharmacist, and my husband is an accountant, we are just normal run of the mill people.

and to whoever asked yes i am milkgoddess. as well as milkgoddessmakesthefinestmilk.

personally, i think the likes of xenia, are actually anti feminists, taking womens choices away and putting women down.
of course you have no need to look the respected research such as the rowntree report and steve biddulphs work,perhaps some of you struggle to understand the research?

how telling as well that you have always employed female nannies? hmm wonder what that tells us?.

personally i think stillwaters summed it up the best with, some people should just accept there happy with "good enough".

personally i still think some people should just accept they, do not have the time or are willing to make any changes that are needed to be a really great parent.

and yes i say PARENT, as i have said all the way through this thread.
unlike most of you.

abouteve.

I think what is really interesting about this thread, these kind of discussions, and useful about MN in general is that it prompts you to examine impulses, and dare I say it, prejudices you never knew you had.

For instance, quite recently one of my friends told me about a snr manager at work who had a baby and was back at work the same week. I was shocked at this.

Having read this thread, and the input from people like Xenia right through to her polar opposites really has taught me to think before I judge, or not to judge at all.

SM this point of yours about what is wrong:
"
it is not wrong to use nursery at 6wk, it is individual choice.what is wrong is blanket dismissal"

I don't think blanket dismissal of nursery of 6wks (!!!) is nearly as bad as people saying 'la, la, la, sure it will all be fine in the end'.

milkgodess after all the argy bargy you initiated you now adopt a conciliatory tone?

"personally, i think the likes of xenia, are actually anti feminists"

Absolutely milkgodess, this conflation of Conservatism with Feminism is rather a clever trick, isn't it?

i compose posts generally addressed at MN audience not specifically you OBM

OBW - the sweeping generalisations and the rudeness are dispiriting but it's pretty even handed don't you think? The SAHMs are equally good at the brickbat stuff.

OH, FOR GOODNESS' SAKE!!! This thread is getting on my nerves. What IS it with those women who insist on taking pops at each other over the choices we make (or maybe it's necessity) in life re: going out to work vs staying at home? For every good SAHM there's a slummy mummy, and for every crap WOTH mum, there's a brilliant one. And many shades inbetween. How on EARTH can anyone generalise to the degrees we've seen in this thread (and all the others on this same subject).
I have worked part-time ever since DCs were born, for a whole host of reasons. I enjoy my job, but I also like being at home. I didn't want DCs in full-time child-care, but I couldn't hack SAH 24/7. What does that make the prognosis for my kids? Are they doubly screwed, or do they have the best of both? God knows, and what's it got to do with anyone else, anyway? Having a career and having kids are not mutually exclusive. I would say the OP's premise (and where IS she, by the way??) is as daft as saying, why would you want a marriage/relationship if you're going to go out to work and not be with DP all the time? (God forbid!)
And, OP, was that mother you saw screaming into her child's face on the shopping trolley a frustrated SAHM or a wicked, neglectful WOHM?
Right, time for my medication, I think....

"how telling as well that you have always employed female nannies? hmm wonder what that tells us?."

PMSL! Um, that most nannies are female?

Milkgoddess has gone milky.

FT - I think the opposite. I think these threads reveal exactly what women think when they are not being polite in real life.

We're into the home straight now... wonder whether we'll require a Part II a la the infamous 'p0rn' thread.

I think nkf's point is an interesting one though. I always get frustrated on marriage name-change threads at the number of posters who say 'Oh, I took my husband's name because it's nicer than mine/more unusual than mine/sounds better with the DCs' names than mine/it matters more to him than it does to me/I want people to know that we are married'. I want to post, 'Don't you see there's a reason why so many women come up with these reasons and so few men do.'

Well I guess the shoe's on the other foot now. I am one of the women coming up with the same-old same-old reasons for staying at home while DP goes out to work.

maybe the anonymity of the medium allows posters to be provocative,inflammatory.after all none of this really matters

nkf - no. I defy you to find a single post by a SAHM on this thread that has been as crudely insulting as Xenia's.

milkgoddess, you're a "hubble pharmacist"? What's that, on a space shuttle?

thank god this thread is nearly at its end. What a bloody pointless discussion

Good Freddy, hopefully that is what mumsnet is about. Milkgoddess is taking things too personally, IMO.

I'm going to find something less confrontional.

I agree spicemonster - utterly, utterly pointless.

WWW, I was going to make that joke but thought she's had enough of a kicking already

(glad you did though)

There's nothing quite so pointless as posting 'this is pointless', IMO.

Hang on, Xenia made some provocative comments but it's pretty provocative to say that women who work ft oth are 'not making any sacrifices' and are damaging their children etc etc. You can't expect to dish it out if you don't want to take it.

Well, not long til it's over now.

How about we all start shaking hands and apologising, leave it on a nice note, eh?

OP, I doubt we'll ever see eye to eye on this issue but I wish you all the best.

lol freddysteddy