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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to honestley wonder, why have children if you WANT to work fulltime and are not prepared to make ANY sacrifices?

1007 replies

milkgoddessmakesthefinestmilk · 17/04/2008 15:48

i don't mean parents that HAVE to work to provide.

i mean the ones that choose to for no other reason, other than they enjoy their job so much.
if you enjoy your job so much, thats great.
but what i really do not understand is why have children?
no one makes any of these parents have children, you can go though life without having children.

this is 100% genuine question, i just do not get it.

OP posts:
FairyMum · 19/04/2008 16:09

What concerns me the most actually is that I rarely see men arguing this point. I thin most are quite happy to leave it to the wife either to be a sahm or to go out to work in a "wifey" job and do the housework too. It's win-win for men!

justabouta · 19/04/2008 16:12

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FairyMum · 19/04/2008 16:15

What criticism can be worse than neglecting your child?

policywonk · 19/04/2008 16:17

Let's see FairyMum... how about being told that we 'damage our children', are 'disgusting', 'morally defective' and have 'never amounted to much' (all taken from Xenia's posts)?

justabouta · 19/04/2008 16:20

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FairyMum · 19/04/2008 16:26

Yes fair enough points. I didn't see it that way...

justabouta · 19/04/2008 16:29

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beaniesteve · 19/04/2008 17:01

Read as much of this thread as I can stomach - up to when milkgoddessmakesthefinestmilk said she was making her final post and used it to tell xenia she's bitter and regretful .

All I can say is my mum was a SAHM until I was about 10 because we lived in a remote area where everyone farmed to live and apart from cutting people's hair occassionally there was no work for a woman with 3 kids under 5. She didn't claim benefits (this was Ireland in the 1970's) but she did suffer depression for all sorts of reasons. When I was 10 both my parents started university courses so we were both broke and 'abandoned'. My mum was happier though, and so I was happier. They were good but flawed parents, because no one is perfect.

Maybe in the eyes of the OP my parents were neglectful because we all had our own keys to the house at the age of around 8, we were often left alone, we cooked meals, made tea, cleaned the house and did what we could to help our family unit.

My mum having a career has not done me any damage, in fact all of us now have a fierce work ehtic. I am trying for my first child at 38. I waited so long because I didn't find the right person. My plan is to take the maternity leave I am entitled to when I get pregnant and then go back to work when it runs out. I will leave my child in a creche because I cannot rely on my mother to bring up my child - it would be wrong to expect her to do so - she still has a career and it is not her job to raise my children. Instead I will pay the very fine people in the creche to do so. I have no idea how it will make me feel or if I will want to stay at home but I am actually dreading having to take 6 - 12 months off in the first place. Not because I have a high flying career but because I have been unemployed in the past, and I can't think of anything worse than being at home all day with no other adult company, no money of my own and no interesting things to do. I will do it though (take a year of maternity leave), because I can.

I hope my children will be happy because I will be happy. They will see as much of me as they will their father who sadly will only get a few weeks maternity leave. I feel sorry for my BF because I will have that 6 months to a year to care for and bond with our child when they are at their most vunerable, but that's biology for you.

My work mate has an 18 year old daughter. She left her in the creche at 6 weeks because she had to. She did not have the benefit of the kind of maternity leave we have now. She tells me she was glad to go back to work and her daughter loved being in the creche and became a very sociable child. She is now a very sociable, well educated and bright adult.

My best friend has 3 children. She is a teacher and has always worked. Her children have been looked after by her parents and in Creches. My friend has recently started a new job in a SN school as she needed new challenges. I have never met happier or more confident children.

Not to say that being a SAHP is bad for children, it's just not right for me. I will not be able to survive financially if I become a SAHM and I would never want to be put in a position where I had to rely on my BF for money. This is not a feminist stance it's the stance of a person who has always paid her own way and who doesn't think doing the housework should be used as a bargaining tool for money so she can buy a new pair of shoes.

I will make changes, I will spend a lot less money on myself, I will be there for my kids if they need me and I will probably need some flexibility from my employer at times. I'm sure I won't know what's hit me when I have kids but I will not accept that I am a bad parent for choosing to go to work.

moreJellothanJlo · 19/04/2008 17:06

beaniesteve, good luck in your quest to have kids, you sound very sensible and sorted!

sarah293 · 19/04/2008 17:26

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beaniesteve · 19/04/2008 17:30

that's biology!

I still think Paternity leave should be longer, if only so the new mum feels like she's not been abandoned!

FairyMum · 19/04/2008 17:59

I would like to see 12 months fully paid leave. I think some of these months should be ear-marked dad, ie. dad can not give those months to mum. Many would probably be opposed to forcing dads to take leave, but I really believe men need forcing or they would be under too much pressure at work NOT to take it up. Tbh I don't think this will ever happen in the UK. I think its a really backward country when it comes to men and childcare.

sarah293 · 19/04/2008 18:01

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FairyMum · 19/04/2008 18:04

Yes of course. The point is that men should get to spend more time with their babies AND also make them more visible as parents in the workplace.

justabouta · 19/04/2008 18:05

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nkf · 19/04/2008 18:57

The number of posts that go: "We are a partnership. It's just that he earns mega bucks and I don't so I stay home" is revealing. That state of affairs isn't accidental you know. That's duplicated the whole world over.

policywonk · 19/04/2008 19:06

I understand the point you're making nkf, but what's also duplicated the world over is the fact that women breastfeed and men don't. I know you can work full-time and continue to breastfeed, but it's a hell of a lot harder to do so than to stay at home with the baby and feed on demand.

Of course this is only an explanation for those SAHMs who do breastfeed.

nkf · 19/04/2008 19:25

It's clear from many of the posts that it's not extended breastfeeding that is resulting in the choice to be stay at home parents.

PosieParker · 19/04/2008 19:43

Why do you think that is nfk? Not attacking genuinely interested.

nkf · 19/04/2008 19:50

Sorry PP, not sure I understand the question. Why do I think what is?

PosieParker · 19/04/2008 19:51

That state of affairs isn't accidental you know.

PosieParker · 19/04/2008 19:52

sorry rather unclear!!

beaniesteve · 19/04/2008 19:58

"Beanie, you sound very sorted so congratulations. However, the line

"the stance of a person who has always paid her own way and who doesn't think doing the housework should be used as a bargaining tool for money so she can buy a new pair of shoes"

does seem highly offensive to me. Perhaps you didn't mean to imply that that was how SAHMs in general operated?"

Gosh no, I am sorry it came across like that though I can see how it could. I mean it not in a bad way re SAHMs, but that I would feel uncomfortable maybe having to use that reason (the fact that I would be the one doing the housework and childcare) to explain why I needed to buy practical things - which could cause tensions even in the calmest happiest partnerships.

I mean that I think it's hard for both partners to get used to a situation where the childcare and housework are seen as valuable and important contributions. Which would obviously apply to a stay at home father too.

When a couple has to go from both working to only one earning, I am sure it's a really difficult thing to get your head round as a couple, specially if like me you've been used to having control over your own finances. On the other hand if one of you has never worked then I am sure it's easier to deal with?

nkf · 19/04/2008 19:59

Oh that. Well, in many countries women are less well educated and therefore end up in worse paid jobs. Or they live within ideologies where working women seem an impossibility. And even in countries like ours, they end up less well paid either because they choose less well paid jobs or because their employer takes the piss and women are, on the whole, less firm about being well paid. And then they take time off when they have children and it messes up their earning power sometimes for ever. We used to give a name to why it happened over and over again despite the variety and individuality of the women involved. We called it sexism and thought feminism might be the solution. Which all goes to show how old I am.

Judy1234 · 19/04/2008 20:04

Good luck to beanies. I do think that children can also benefit from parents not being "helicopter parents", in their hair all the time. I think it's helped mine be independent that I don't always want to know or remember their teacher's name, although that may be more than we're on to child 5 by now than lack of interest or that sometimes they come home alone and know how to deal with things alone. In other words that can be a good not a negative thing.
On the new paternity rights the proposal which was delayed fro this year is that father's can take 6 months and mothers 6 months (as now at the pittance it is after 6 weeks though which is why many women go back to work quickly). Women will still be able to take a year but they can instead do 6 months them and after 6 months the father as is common in Scandinvaia. Britain has one of the worst breastfeeding rates beyond about 6 weeks of most countries in the EU I think sadly but certainly I accept that's a reason most women who breastfeed are likely to be the ones taking the first 6 months although I went back at 2 weeks and did breastfeed them all to over a year, getting on for 2 years in some cases.

Perhaps we should stop paying maternity benefits to women who don't breastfeed - us a bit of stick as well as carrot!

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