to honestley wonder, why have children if you WANT to work fulltime and are not prepared to make ANY sacrifices?

[milkgoddessmakesthefinestmilk]

i don't mean parents that HAVE to work to provide.

i mean the ones that choose to for no other reason, other than they enjoy their job so much.
if you enjoy your job so much, thats great.
but what i really do not understand is why have children?
no one makes any of these parents have children, you can go though life without having children.

this is 100% genuine question, i just do not get it.

It was a choice I made. I wanted a child and didn't want someone else to influence him more than myself early on
A simple example would be - I want my ds to say "thankyou". A nursery might say "ta".
I don't doubt that your children know you love them and that you have time with them but I think awake time is more important than sleeping time
(I actually can't remember what real sleep is!!)

A child has a whole lifetime to soak up influence and be enriched. Why cloistered if you're a SAHM? Like saying you neglect if they go to nursery??

StressTeddy - my DCs have both been in nursery since they were 6 months old. Although they did start off being taught "Ta" (which I hate with a passion) at nursery, I have had absolutely no problems (despite my full-time job and long commute) influencing DS enough to automatically say "thank you" and "You're welcome" and other niceties. I fully expect DD to follow suit, but she's only 21 months at the moment.

At the beginning and end of thios argument we are all devoted parents who love and wish to do the best for our children, surely that is enough to satisfy everyone. I want to stay at home and lucky me my dp earns enough so I can, do I get pissed off that I have no christmas do? Every year. Do I get pissed off that people ask which holiday club my children are going to and are horrorfied when I say I'm a SAHM? Too right. Do I feel the need to tell people what I did before I had my children so they don;t think I'm stupid? Everytime! Would I go back to work and put my children in childcare? No way. Finally, do I expect everyone to feel the same? Not in a million years!! I feel that by defending the SAHM mother I am attacking the WOHM and that means my GP, the nurse that stitched my son's head, my son's teachers, my bank manager, our accountant and many very important people in the workplace.

Xenia on Fri 18-Apr-08 21:06:46
"Ayone with 5 chilren like us who both work full time and are committed to their jobs doesn't take time off when children off with the normal run of childhood things like chicken pox, colds, vomitting bugs. of course they don't not unless they live in cloud cuckoo land. Children don't need a parent with that, just their loved nanny or child minder or granny."

Childminders, unless they only have one mindee, cannot look after children with infectious illnesses; they're not allowed for fear of spreading infection. That's one of the differences between nannies and childminders.

And naturally, lots of people are not able to use grandparents as carers either; they may be dead or frail or simply live far away- or even have jobs of their own.

posie - I agree I get the feeling that a lot of SAHMs feel that they need to defend their intelligence/justify their existence. But I don't ever think a SAHM is stupid just because she chooses to devote her time to caring for her DCs. Half my friends are SAHMs. What I want is a world where all parents (mothers and fathers) can make a choice about their childcare that is right for them and their families, without feeling judged. Unfortunately that seems like a bit of a utopian ideal

Ah, and again we reach Utopia!! You must be in the minority as I too felt SAHMs were stupid!!

what's wrong with saying ta? It's a bit blooming easier to say than thank you for a 12 month old. And is no one allowed to be Northern?

Many couples both work full time when they have under 5s. They have to find some back up care for sick children. If they have a nanny then there's no issue. If they have a helpful neighbour that's great. It is not the case that all working parents are justified to take time off every time a child is sick. Often that isn't fair on colleagues. What if you';re a teacher 0 do we want the class teacher off everytime their 4 children are ill? Of coures not. It's the job of the employee to arrange their care and back up care. You can do things like we did -ads in the local paper, finding people with time on their hands or local students, you build up relationships between your children and then, most people have regular babysitters, the lady of 50 who always needs a bit of extra cash etc who is happy to come in when the child is sick.

This thread was started by saying - why have a child if you work. That is a thread in a sense against all men and yet the original poster was not criticising fathers. It is a fundamentally sexist argument which has no place in 2008 and is designed ni a sense to kick women, make them the whipping boy of the country as they often are because of ingrained misogyny which is often as bad in other women as in men. Men have close and loving relationships with their children and work as do many many full time working women.

georgie - I just don't want my ds to say "ta". It's not a Northern thing. I am Northern and live in Yorkshire

but why? I just don't understand. What is wrong with it?

I actually agree with many of your arguments but, I think your proud announcement of returning to work after two weeks makes you look rather cold and in a solitary position on this thread.
If it is all a question of balance I think most contributors to this debate have it right.

I just don't like it and never have.. I'm sure there are words you don't like and would not want your children to use given the choice???

Enjoying the class argument here. Our first three children said "you was" until they were 3 or 4 because the nanny did. It was never a problem because they gradually talk like their parents as time goes on until the teenagers like, years, like... when their peers influence them, like.

Going back at 2 weeks is no more cold than 3 months or 6 mnoths. It's easier. You haven't established sexist child care patterns at home, the baby doesn't have a sudden wrench and change and you all get settled into a routine earlier. I'm not remotely cold as a person. Loved breastfeeding always to over a year. Lots of cuddles with the children. With the twins I was taking business calls the next day at home and why is that a problem. I have people I need to help who depends on me. I have obligations both to my family and the wider world. The twins weren't neglected because of that and it was probably a better use of my time than washing my hair.

well yes, but most of them have four letters. Ta seems pretty inoccuous really.

(Georgiemama wanders away wondering if this is another MN thing which she doesn't get, like fruitshoots and GF...)

Georgie - I think Stressteddy may be just be trying to avoid telling you that she thinks it sounds common

My son depends on me and I would always out him first. The "wider world" can wait

Xenia is an extreme case, but good on her if it worked (and sounds like it did)). I went back to work fulltime when DS was 9 months but am still BF at bedtime.

There's a word I love - common. It sounds so earthy!!

The word "ta" was merely an example of influence. And yes, I do think it sounds common

Xenia, I wonder whether you had male and female nannies, so as not to establish sexist child care patterns? Or do children filter out lower socioeconomic groups when learning their life lessons?

I don't like ta either
My ds went to nursery at 6 months old as i had to return to work, he has perfect manners and thats all thanks to the wonderful nursery he goes to.

Ta is a colloquialism. If my DCs wish to use it as an informal expression amongst their peers when they are older, then fine. But I would like them to learn the formal version (i.e. thank you) first. There are simply some situations where "Ta" is not appropriate (a job interview for instance).

And yes, I'm afraid I think it sounds common

I am clearly not alone.

Referring back to the OP- have you ever worked full time?

I can assure than even if you are lucky enough to work in a profession you enjoy - it is a bloody sacrifice to go to work full time! I assure that me and my family cherish the time we spend together.

Hope you are delighted with all the shit you've tried to stir.
It is pretty disgusting and hope you don;t play this silly games with your own children. I can guarantee you you can fuck them up big time! What a cow!

Referring back to the OP- have you ever worked full time?

I can assure than even if you are lucky enough to work in a profession you enjoy - it is a bloody sacrifice to go to work full time! I assure that me and my family cherish the time we spend together.

Hope you are delighted with all the shit you've tried to stir.
It is pretty disgusting and hope you don;t play this silly games with your own children. I can guarantee you you can fuck them up big time! What a cow!