to honestley wonder, why have children if you WANT to work fulltime and are not prepared to make ANY sacrifices?

[milkgoddessmakesthefinestmilk]

i don't mean parents that HAVE to work to provide.

i mean the ones that choose to for no other reason, other than they enjoy their job so much.
if you enjoy your job so much, thats great.
but what i really do not understand is why have children?
no one makes any of these parents have children, you can go though life without having children.

this is 100% genuine question, i just do not get it.

Although Xenia is expressing a very extreme version, there is a point there somewhere. Women still do not have the same opportunities to get into decent paid work and maybe if we did have better opportunities we would work more - it does seem from the trillions of threads about this - it is those who were fortunate enought to get a good education and good career who want to keep it on.

But, faced with Tesco full time - even nursing to some extent ( I say that because low paid but does have some social standing) or looking after your children - you might just think fuck it, the children are the better option - at least there is some kuodos there ( with everyone except Xenia).

So maybe, we do need re-education - not in the sense of what womanhood is - but in the sense of going back to university, learning and getting the better jobs.

Excellent post Xenia. I've never been closer to agreeing with you as on this thread. Even if you are still up there with the posh, barking fairies.

But well said anyway.

Message withdrawn

why do you all seem to lick xenia's (sand ridden) arse?? if she is stating her views in jest then i cld see why but otherwise ???? i mean unless the whole life on mars thing has really happened and some militarian woman has been blasted forward??? oh-er the possibilities...

Thanku Riven

I was trying to say that
but in between putting the kids to bed and my one brain cell working overtime

Well....

awww thanks lovelymonster lets polish our halos

Message withdrawn

Agree scottishmummy. I love my children, DH loves them equally. We work full time. I think we are setting a fantastic example to them and enabling them to see that when they too are grown men and women, they too will be able to be parents and have an interesting and stimulating life outside the home too. Maybe if I had never had an interesting job I wouldnt have much incentive to get out of the house. But I'm glad I have an interesting life. My children are bright and lovely. End of.

Freddysteddy, really?

is the point not that as mums we individually chose rather than berate and judge others non?.

apologies i dont even realise im doing it... i am young but i am learning.... yoda voice ha ha

alfies babe you said - they too will be able to be parents and have an interesting and stimulating life outside the home too, does this mean you believe SAHP do not have any outside the home interests?

It must be said that the intense SAHM parenting model is rather untested - it is rather new, this parenting-in-isolation by highly-trained emotionally-aware women who want everything to be OPTIMAL

Often referred to as the 'overparented' generation

So Xenia's point might be right

You mean like Stepford Wives MP?

can we see some EVIDENCE so that we might base these opinions on fact, i mean by going to work we are hardly exacting the same type of deprivation as described in Bowlby et al's maternal deprivation study BUT by being at home it doesnt mean all women over-parent!!

and FWIW i think that if you really wanted to you could overparent when you arent working...so therefore overparenting couldnt be the sole reason that SAHP would be damaging?

Overparenting can happen to both sides

they too will be able to be parents and have an interesting and stimulating life outside the home too - i meant that as in if you are a working parent but on time off... i really need a labotomy...

Personal choice. How well the child turns out is down to numerous factors - way too many to tease out statistically. It's all a crock of brown smelly goo designed to keep us bickering amongst ourselves so we don't rise up and take over the world!!!

Here, put your feet up love.

I must say, while i am not defending the op, i don't actually think she said she was against women going back to work. I think she was angry at the people with big careers who do 8am-6pm and leave their kids in nursery for the duration? That would mean by the time they got home it would be almost bedtime for the kids so no time would be with them.

Broody - no, I am not saying that it's impossible to have an interesting and stimulating life outside the home, but I've found in my experience that work usually provides a structure around some fairly significant aspects of life. eg in my role in education, I deal with interesting and challenging situations every day. I get to meet a wide range of people. I have to meet standards and hit targets which are a good motivator. I read, network, and keep up to date with new research and developments in my specific field. I also have a good social network with particular work friends - we'll go out for meals, theatre etc. I'm not saying that these things can't happen unless you are working - but as I say, IME, they tend to happen less when you are at home. I also think a huge issue is how long a parent remains at home. I have freinds who have taken a few years out with young children, but who have been very good at maintaining structures in their everyday life, they carry on seeing friends etc (not just a toddler groups but through other things) and they keep their skills sharp and are able to slot back into work later. Thats a very different scenario from a parent who is stuck at home way past when their children have started school, and feel isolated, bored and de-skilled by years out of the workplace.

ah alfies babe good point well made, i suppose to my way of thinking thats the key difference betweent bein a SAHP and a housewife/husband

i also agree work almost forces you to into some sort of routine interaction which can be a gd thing

couldn't agree more Mylovely

When I was successful at my job working almost entirely with men the shit I did get mostly came from the women.
When i got pregnant those who started asking about whether I was coming back after babe or not were the women.
when I came back the only shitty comments I got about 'abandoning' my child were from women.
And when I finally gave up work the people who tend to sneer at that and be superior about it tend to be....

hmm can you guess.

I have never understood it. Working as a mum gave me a great sense of achievement and I loved that our sons saw me and DH both working and looking after them. When i gave up I loved the time and attention I was able to give them. Both were good in different way.
People who try to be superior about the choice they have made for their families are deeply sad individuals

Doomed if you do doomed if you don`t

pennytree - i agree totally, if i had gone back when DD much younger iwould have had less of a problem now she is 2.5 and needs her mummy. Or at least thats what i like to think.

Xenia is overcompensating for something.

IF i had my way i will stay home until DD starts school, then i will go back to work.

Do you know something else, i'm past caring what anyone else thinks!

i spose on the upside at least we have something to debate?? and if it wasnt this then it'd only be something else, at least here alot of viewpoints are expressed which potentially change persons minds