Has the left now met the right, shaken hands with it then stuck 2 fingers up at the general population?

[Soloadventurer]

Womens rights are an area the globe seems to struggle with. Afghanistan has decided women must be covered head to toe, including hands, in thick black fabric and cannot be allowed near men. Australia has decided men must be allowed in women's spaces or face being taken to court for large sums of money, making it all but illegal now to have women only spaces there. Why does the world hate women so much?

You must be a man if you think you can tell women to bugger off for responding to a comment.

Who are making law impacting a huge number of women.
So we women are going to complain about that. Whether or not pricks try to stop us.

Men aren't up in arms about this for the same reason that white women aren't up in arms about racism. Everyone focuses on the harm they being being done to their own group and demanding everyone else see it through their eyes only

As a white woman, I’m up in arms about the treatment of brown women in Afghanistan and the inequity facing black women and babies in the uk medical system.

So your point is bollocks. You may not care but that’s entirely on you.

Men should care about 50% of the population, particularly given their dependence on them for the future. But that’s ultimately the issue, imo.

The point is that white people, men and women both are the cause of racism.

But of course NAWWALT

There was indeed. As if women are in some way responsible for not helping to make sure men aren’t misogynists. Also, interesting (and completely predictable) that the bloke involved, when quoting the characteristics that are protected in the equality act, completely missed out Sex.

Because those movements are about men for the advantage of men and pushed forward so much by men. That's how you know they're mens rights movements. If they in any way advantaged women they would have been forgotten about decades ago.

@TheCrenchinglyMcQuaffenBrothers
I forgot that, he also included "gender identity" and didn't get corrected by the host or female participant. He got a lot more air time too

It's the NAMALT that needs to bugger off. We're adults, our understanding of nuance and individuality renders NA...ALT disclaimers redundant.

I see you have made sweeping generalisations in several of your posts so suspect NAMALT is just projection.

You're an adult man clearly, enjoying harassing women. Give it up

No I have not posted anything about golf clubs before. I personally don't care if women are there or not. I can't play for toffee. Likewise private members men only clubs.

The majority of men entirely accept women being in most places. Likewise accept men not being allowed in others. But you must accept the same thing needs to happen in reverse. When you have a noisy minority demanding female access to mens clubs as an example, you open the door to the noisy minority of trans or just bloody minded contrary individuals.

You quote an inability for Women to join in networking at places like this previously. The reality is that for large swathes of the male population, we couldn't either. Due to either financial restraints or 'lower social standing' when applying for membership.

To have a balance, you cannot consider eg lapdancers at private members clubs as wrong, but then have strippers at hen parties.

In sport, we should not be allowing male or female biologically born people compete in sports of the opposite sex. In physical sports it does give trans an advantage. This is something most people agree on. With the golf subject, ladies days make far more sense.

Do I want to share changing facilities with females or ones that want to be females. No I do not, and nor should Women. There must be a third option out there somewhere.

''Men who want access to women-only resources aren't motivated by being excluded from powerful networks, they just want to see naked women or indulge a fantasy that they are women.''

My personal feeling sex change individuals if that is what what you are meaning there, is that the majority of them have some form of mental illness going on. There may be the very odd one that is genuinely born in the wrong body. The only one I ever met was a woman who as it transpired had been born intersex.

The men I met wanting to be female, were either 'strange' or had clear mental illness. I suspect this is what a vast amount of men believe too.

Your posts are clearly from a male point of view of what you believe feminists were campaigning for. You are really not well informed on how the oppression based on sex works compared to one of those you are mixing up with it - socioeconomic oppression.

And you don’t seem to understand equity vs equality in your analysis of the needs of other either. That is all fine, but then you post on a thread that is related to sex bases oppression that is coming from extreme political / religious groups in posts that amount to ‘what about the men’ . Then your views just show how ill informed you are.

“To have a balance, you cannot consider eg lapdancers at private members clubs as wrong, but then have strippers at hen parties.”

Again, a sure sign that you not only lack the analysis of coercive forces in regards to female people’s choices, but also safeguarding and the power imbalances between your examples.

I believe I am looking at it from a balanced point of view. Not from a polarised view.

Do most men and women quite happily go about their day where both sexes can go to most places? Yes!
Do most men and women accept and have no issue with single sex places? Yes!

Where in any of that is a suggestion of being anything other than fair to both sexes?

“The majority of men entirely accept women being in most places. Likewise accept men not being allowed in others. But you must accept the same thing needs to happen in reverse. When you have a noisy minority demanding female access to mens clubs as an example, you open the door to the noisy minority of trans or just bloody minded contrary individuals.”

And again. You don’t understand the demand for equity of opportunity for economic growth and have mistaken it for ‘equality’.

And it is blindingly clear you don’t understand about safeguarding either. Nor do you acknowledge the motivation of the male people with trans identities in that scenario.

The points you are trying to compare are not symmetrical no matter how hard you try to make them fit.

Agree it doesn't make sense

Same. It's really depressing how things have regressed.

Because you are arguing about ‘fairness’ with regards to private mens clubs and men’s golf sessions as if they are just places where therapeutic socialisation happens and not the continuation of blocking female people out of economic opportunities. Well, except the wonderful economic opportunity to perform for men’s entertainment in men’s clubs.

You have not used men’s therapy groups or support groups as examples.

Your arguments are those of a classic men’s rights activist.

The number of extremely succesful Women in business now, contradicts the fallacy that the old school private club membership is a requirement.

Trans in Womens changing areas, several times I have said I disagree with it happening. The reason these people are like that imo is more than sexual curiosity. I believe it to be a major mental health issue. Either way, the vast majority of the population, male or female, don't want it happening. In what way is that not supportive?

Women use women only spaces for safety and modesty (which is really still safety). For the opportunity to discuss things as they experience them without being talked over by men telling them what to think.

Research apparently shows that women are more likely to take part in public meetings where the chair is a woman.
In mixed sex meetings, men talk disproportionately more than women.
I’ve experienced this recently in my own meeting, arranged by me, where I had to stand between a self invited man and the man I had arranged to meet with in order to get a word in.
These are reasons women meet without men.

Men exclude women for entirely different reasons.

It doesn’t matter what a ‘vast majority’ want. What matters is that a minority are successful in gaining access to spaces where safeguarding risk assessment means they should not there.

You can tell us all about why you think males with the belief that they are women want to be in female spaces. It doesn’t matter, why. A man with any medical condition, including mental health conditions, should not be allowed to access female spaces for any reason, not even because they feel that that is where they belong.

Female people are not therapeutic resources for male people’s needs.

“The reason these people are like that imo is more than sexual curiosity”

And don’t fucking try to sell us that one either.

Firstly, it is incredibly and misogynistically dismissive to describe it as ‘sexual curiosity’. What the actual fuck.

And secondly, even if it is just ONE male doing it for their sexual gratification, that is too many. Also which one is it, how do we tell?

Thirdly, it isn’t up to any
man to tell women who they should accept into our spaces.

Fourthly, well done on dismissing female people’s concerns considering just how many of us have experienced violence and abuse from male people.

@ATenShun

What do you mean by intersex? There isn't such a condition. There are however disorders or sexual development (sometimes called differences of sexual development) that are always sex specific, so only affect males or females.

“The number of extremely succesful Women in business now, contradicts the fallacy that the old school private club membership is a requirement.”

FFS.

And for how many decades has the concerted effort taken for women to get into those positions in business? When do you think the tide began to turn? Do you even understand that it took women demanding access to those old private clubs you seem so keen to protect to even get the inequity noticed? To get even a small proportion of the groups that used to be men only to open so women could have the same opportunities to network and discuss business so women could start to build these companies.

Either way, the vast majority of the population, male or female, don't want it happening. In what way is that not supportive?

But it IS happening. To the detriment of women not men. So 'being supportive' is fuck all use. Sorry.