Huge row with DH over food safety - who is BU?

[namechange294824]

NC'ed on the off chance this is outing!

DH and I are both 34. We've been in the process of moving house over the past 2 months, and are finally in a position to have guests in the house (i.e. we have a dining table and chairs). Moving hasn't been without its challenges and there have been some really stressful bits, but on the whole it's been fairly straightforward, and we don't have kids.

Invited DH's parents (mid/late 60s) to dinner on Tuesday night. I offered to cook. I prepared a starter, a main, and a dessert on Monday night, ready to go in the fridge for ease of serving quickly on Tuesday (I was going to be getting in from work only 20 mins or so before they arrived so it made sense to pre-prepare.) I spent 3.5 hours cooking/baking on Monday, which wiped out my entire post-work evening. No drama; I'd offered to do it, and I enjoy cooking.

But throughout this 3.5 hours DH could not help himself from repeatedly putting his head round the door and being critical - why hadn't I done X? Was I going to bother putting Y in the bin or is it going to be left on the side forever? So on, so forth. I asked him to stop, and he didn't. He probably whinged at me 5 times about separate trivial things whilst I was cooking.

The main dish needed a long while in the oven. It was 9.15pm at this point and he had totally exhausted me with his bitching and griping. I told him I just wanted to shower and go to bed and asked him to take the food out of the oven once the timer went off, which would have been at 10pm.

He did that. But he then failed to put it in the fridge, leaving it out overnight on the countertop. He was watching telly until about midnight, well after the point it would have cooled enough to go in the fridge.

I was so furious in the morning that after a night of whinging and sniping at me he'd not even had the thought to properly put away the food I'd spent so long cooking.

His position: the food's fine, it had foil on it anyway, just crack on and serve it tonight

My position: it's a meat dish (with pork in) and I don't feel comfortable serving it to his parents who are in their 60s after it's been left out overnight in the middle of August

He cancelled the dinner plans, and told his mum it was because we'd had an argument (which we had, I guess, but now I feel really humiliated and almost ashamed that their evening was spoiled because of us).

So... who is BU?

It's the facts which matter here. The temperature range between 8-63C is known as the danger zone, because at this range, bacteria in the food (which escaped the original heating or came from the foil) can reproduce and become sufficiently numerous to cause food poisoning. Which can be very unpleasant and even fatal. The fact that you might have got away with this in the past, or you're still working full time in your 60s is irrelevant. The advice is there to minimise the risk of something going wrong. this doesn't mean that not following the advice will certainly have a bad outcome. Nor does it mean that following the guidance prevents anything bad happening. It's about, to repeat, minimisng the risks. Where food is cooked and won't be eaten until later, it should be split into smaller portions and cooled as fast as possible, e.g. in a sink of cold water/ice, so it's cool enough to go in the fridge within 2 hours. This is what the Food Standards Agency says and it's advice that people who takes their responsibility for their and other people's health, follow.

Well, millions of people do it all the time and survive without any kind of repercussions.

Remember, official food advice always has to err on the side of caution, just like medical websites will tell you to see a GP just in case, because they don't want to be held responsible for someone getting sick.

Storm in a casserole dish. I’d have eaten it. Husband popping into kitchen constantly and being annoying would have driven me up the wall though

I wouldn't serve it to guests either, or elderly vulnerable people. OP's ILs are not elderly but she has mentioned a health condition her FIL has, so that would make me a bit more cautious. They are not, though, from the sound of it, frail people struggling with multiple chronic health issues and with weakened immune systems.

I don't think it is to do with food safety, it is to do with his awful behaviour - such a strop-master, he. Nip it in the bud, it will only deteriorate from this moment, if not nipped in the bud. HE did not put it in the fridge and he strops and cancels dinner and blames it on you???? (Indirectly blames)

Yes

I'd eat it for myself but not serve it to others. I'm a bit slack when it comes to my own food hygiene (past use by dates, using same knife / board for meat / veg, will eat food left in kitchen as long as it looks and smells ok ) but I follow all the rules when cooking for others.

Though because it was his fuck up I'd ask that he finds a replacement and explains to his parents. It doesn't sound like something worth arguing about though

This. I would have left it overnight and got up early in the morning to stick it in the fridge.

Mind you, I do not usually cook pork and certainly not for other people.

The point is that 95% of the time you may get away with eating something that's got bacteria in it by not cooling it quickly.

But there will be a time when you won't.

So it's okay to take that risk yourself, if you want to, but not serving food to guests.

And age is relevant simply because older people have immune systems that aren't so efficient.

I agree with a PP who says the issue is not so much the food being left out but the H not taking responsibility for what he did and trying to blame the OP for 'the row' created by his behaviour.

It's all a bit immature .

If I was his parents I'd have been puzzled to say the least and wondered why they couldn't have bought a nice Meal Deal instead.
And sorted out their differences at another time.

I’ve also left food out overnight countless times and eaten the next day with no problems. Except for the one time I actually did give me and my son food poisoning (from a cottage pie). Was not fun so i’m now with OP, not worth the risk.

It would be unsafe to serve pork that's been sitting out all night - especially unsafe to serve this to older people.

It's quite puzzling why people persist in arguing with science.
Why?

You can put something in the fridge if it's still warm.
Modern fridges are more efficient now and maintain their temp efficiently, even if you put something warm in.

The advice of never putting anything warm in a fridge has been changed.
The old rule was that it would warm the fridge and that would be detrimental to the other food in there. But this isn't so much an issue now and you can always use the control to set the fridge colder, overnight.

I'd bin the pork and bin the man

I’m guessing this is a dish eaten cold. It would have been fine. It was all cooked and therefore sterile. It needed time too cool, which is several hours for a large dish, before going in the fridge. You should have refrigerated it when you got up in the morning and not made a fuss.

It would’ve been fine. I’ve done this a few times and never been ill.

My house is quite a cool one, and the kitchen especially so, so I would not necessarily throw something away which had been left out. In fact, I had some soup for lunch which was like this. And 60s does not necessarily mean old or frail.

He sounds like a dick for sniping but I would have refrigerated it in the morning and served without a seconds thought. It wasn't even very warm last night (down here anyway)

It's quite puzzling why people persist in arguing with science.

Because official advice is always over-cautious. It's like when you google a medical issue, they always tell you to check with your GP, or if you ring 111 with certain symptoms, they send you to A&E.

The fact that people regularly leave meat out all night with no issue means it's pretty evident that the official advice is over-cautious. It has to be (for obvious reasons).

He behaved like an arsehole 4 more times after you'd told him to stop being critical, so YABU to have not told him to fuck off and do the cooking himself. Don't be a martyr, they are his parents so he should've been bloody grateful you were doing the work.

YANBU to not want to serve that dish to others. I might take the chance and eat it myself but I wouldn't want to risk making others ill.

YABU to have binned the food. Such an awful waste. I'd have let him eat it himself another time, and bought a nice ready meal for the dinner party.

YANBU to be pissed off he cancelled the dinner and told his parents it was because you'd had a row. What a dick move! As a PP said, make any other excuse to cancel, but always have a united front with relatives. He really needs to grow the hell up. Quickly.

Your DH sounds like a backseat driver who then, when in the front seat, doesn't know what he's doing! I would personally not take the risk. He ought to own up to why the meal was cancelled!

And millions of people take stuff out of the oven, leave it to cool overnight and then put it in the fridge early next morning to serve that evening. Millions of people make stew or soup. Have it for dinner and then leave it in a covered pan for the next evening meal. What the food standards agency - who have a duty to advise people of the minimum safety standards - and what actual people who have common sense do, are two different things. This thread is just stupid and i now understand why there’s so much waste. To throw away a fully cooked, safe meal because of the minuscule chance that there may be a problem is a first world problem.

This.

I think it was intended to be reheated. Sounds like a pork casserole of some kind.

You absolutely cannot put something in the fridge if it’s still warm !! Modern fridges may be more efficient but they absolutely won’t cope with something cooked in the oven for hours and only cooled for a couple of hours before refrigerating. That raises the temperature of the fridge and makes everything in it unsafe to eat. CURRENT UK advice is to either leave pre cooked food until it’s completely cold or to split into much smaller portions, cool in iced water and then refrigerate.

Pork is no more unsafe than any other meat. PIL are in their sixties - so am I. I have done this with various meats, including pork during my lifetime with no problem. I’m 66 and still here. Never ‘poisoned’ anyone.