Aibu to not understand why France is considered more upmarket than Spain or Portugal?

[Janesygal]

Just that.. It's right across the channel, our nearest neighbours so why is it considered more upmarket than Spain, the Spanish islands or Portugal?

What about a villa in Spain ?

What a weird comment. I don't know anyone who thinks going to 'just' France is naff.

Alexandra2001
Anyway, what does it matter now?

Perhaps you should ask MadelineMummy - I was replying to her post.

I was just about to say Marseille! Also Montpellier, Lyon, and a fair bit of Normandy and the Basque region. Basically, like any other place in the world, there are lovely idyllic bits of France and dodgy, dog-rough bits. Same with Spain, same with Portugal.

Well what about Le Touquet? It is lovely there! It is also Normandy.

the vastness of France means not every restaurant will translate into English unlike the tourist hotspots of Spain

The vastness of France ? As opposed to Spain which is just a small line of coast ? Don't be daft - there will be many, many places in Spain which are not set up to cater to British tourists .

And I don't understand what you mean about needing to drive in France but not Spain ? Both are large countries with multiple airports you can fly to, or access by ferry if you prefer . Both also have public transport - or are you saying the public transport in France is rubbish and that's why people have to drive ?

I went to Marseille, Montpellier and Toulouse over 40 years ago. I was hoping that they had improved. Toulouse was a hole and we liked Marseille so much we left at 6:00am in the morning, didn't feel safe there. Marseille was gorgeous in the harbour but 200 yards away down the side streets it was a very different story - very slummy. Of the 3 Montpellier was the nicer.

I have crewed so I have been in some of the lesser known ports of Spain and France, some were a bit grim some were lovely. The parts of Northern Spain where the Spanish go on holiday were lovely, hope Lekeitio and Getaria in the Basque region haven't been spoilt.

I'm not from the UK, so I don't know anything about cultural backgrounds/class whatever. However Spain/Portugal have objectively cheaper holidays than France.

Of course every country has their luxury destinations but not all of them have cheap budget options. Switzerland and the Nordic countries for example - daily essentials are expensive let alone holidays.

Also we're taking about 'holidays', i.e going away to relax as opposed to 'travel' (seeing other cultures etc). A lot of people seem to hate UK weather and just want to get away - what would they gain from an expensive holiday seeing the sights? Sun and sand is enough

^Some things that make it less appealing to Brits and therefore more middle class are:
• Lack of British food in supermarkets - requires some level of translation
• Same with restaurants - the vastness of France means not every restaurant will translate into English unlike the tourist hotspots of Spain
• Travel - requires a car and some competency to drive on the other side
• Lack of package holiday culture - visiting France can take a bit more effort
• Weather - perception that you can't guarantee sun and sand

We love it though. I like visiting other places as well but if you don't want a 30 degree + Med holiday, France is a brilliantly diverse place for fantastic holidays^

Every single one of those points can also be applied to Spain,which is more or less the same size as France BTW.

Try wandering around the Andalucian mountains, Galicia or Basque country looking for marmite, egg and chips, an English menu, people who speak much English, a package holiday or guaranteed sun (it snowed when we were in Andalucia in May just gone) and you'll be disappointed.

I wouldn't mind betting that half the families who pat themselves on the back for their cultured high brow French holidays fill their cars with Marmite and Heinz beans and spend a good proportion of their holiday scouring supermarkets for cheese, ham, bread and cereal that their DC will eat and not that funny French stuff they won't touch.

@mafsfan I'd agree but what I'd add is that the same things make the vast majority of Spain less appealing as well, away from the beaten-track coastal enclaves.
Spain is an absolutely stunning country, so much incredible natural scenery, culture and history. I genuinely don't know how much of that Spain people on their package holidays get to explore.

I have been to a lot of French towns in my time and the supermarkets usually have an aisle where you can buy your baked beans and tomato ketchup if that is what you need 😂

Try wandering around the Andalucian mountains, Galicia or Basque country looking for marmite, egg and chips, an English menu, people who speak much English, a package holiday or guaranteed sun (it snowed when we were in Andalucia in Mayjust gone) and you'll be disappointed.

I wouldn't be, you've made it more appealing. A holiday away from most people from the UK is a positive for me. Each to their own though.

Maybe it's because people who can't afford to choose where they holiday would go to a cheap resort as part of a package in Spain, just because it's cheap. Whereas people with enough money to choose, would go to France out of choice and stay wherever they like there.

That reply was to try and educate the thickos who think that all of Spain is some sort of giant all inclusive resort solely for British holiday makers to lay in the sun with a pint and a roast dinner.

Nor is it somewhere where you'd only go if you can't afford anything else FFS and anyway, have you seen the price of an AI holiday? They cost a fucking fortune.

Each to their own- but yes a villa totally adds more work, the tidying, the meals (even if just breakfast). I have 347 days a year where I make my kids breakfast and make the beds- sod that on my holiday.

I don’t think people are being thick - just saying why they think the perception is different.

I love Spain and have visited many parts of it repeatedly. Also France - my ex is French. IMO the best of Spain is absolutely as good if not better than the best of France. I love the area around Frigiliana. Love Granada. Love Barcelona. And my favourite bits of France are the bits down near the border where you get that cultural blend. And cuisine blend. I’m a bit food oriented on holiday :)

But Spain has a perception that is rooted in the history as the first mass package holiday destination. I get that.

I find villas acceptable so long as fully staffed.

@Purplebunnie We have holidayed in Marseille, Montpellier and Lyon and love them. Yes there are some run down parts but that is true of all cities.

I used to live in France in a depressing shit hole town - it definitely wasn't up market! Like anywhere, places have nice places and ugly places. I guess Spain is cheaper, hence the mass appeal.

Love Le Touquet! Easy to get to, deco chic, great patisserie, Le Pavillion at Hotel Westminster.

As a pp says the ‘AI resort being downmarket’ opinion is surely outdated given the cost of holidays now. I went on Brittany Ferries holidays in a gite for several years as a ‘cheap’ option. They are not usually more expensive than a UK cottage or a Parkdean resort either. Although Eurocamps can be
pretty expensive.

We Brits do like Spanish culture and Spaniards very much! In my opinion the Spanish are generally warm and open people. Which we reserved Brits love. The culture in many parts of Spain is seen as more ‘exotic’ to us than French culture which is many ways is more comparable to ours (for obvious geographical reasons!) and more somehow ‘moderate’ and less flamboyant. We love the passion and extravagance of Spain. Its flamenco, its food, its people, its climate, its history of bulls and horses and music etc is so very different to ours it appeals to us a place to escape the humdrum of everyday life.

Spain however has become a victim of its own success these days. Back in the 60s and 70s onwards, post Franco, Spain positioned itself and sold itself to Northern Europeans as a hot tourist destination and it worked. Tenfold. Suddenly instead of camping holidays in the UK or France, Spain opened up to us as the package deal. The rest is history and now they are sick of us 😂

Anyway, slightly off topic but sort of relevant to the OP.

Spain has a perception that is rooted in the history as the first mass package holiday destination.

This is the answer to the question. We can stop now.

Very few places in Europe are more upmarket than Estoril and Cascais to the west of Lisbon.