Aibu to not understand why France is considered more upmarket than Spain or Portugal?

[Janesygal]

Just that.. It's right across the channel, our nearest neighbours so why is it considered more upmarket than Spain, the Spanish islands or Portugal?

If you go to France you often drive and travel around rather than stopping in one place. You normally do self catering which is more middle class as you go out and explore more, go to local restaurants etc. It’s harder to get by without learning a bit of the language which forces you to try harder. So overall a more cultured holiday.
Spain is more associated with Package deals and all inclusive holidays where you don’t leave the hotel site.
These are of course assumptions and stereotypes and it is not always the case obviously.

But those are the more obvious differences that come into my head immediately.

You're right it makes no sense!

It's a richer country I guess.

It just doesn’t cater to the package holiday market. It also doesn’t cater to the Brits abroad wanting fry ups etc. This automatically elevates it in my experience.

There’s also not the absolute assumption that the English language will be spoken.

Until I found Mumsnet I had no idea self catering was more middle class. I'd always thought the opposite

Currently on holiday in France. Friends have been surprised at how much our holidays cost considering it's 'only France' but then are also surprised at how nice it is (weather, beaches, campsites, AirBnBs).

Some things that make it less appealing to Brits and therefore more middle class are:
• Lack of British food in supermarkets - requires some level of translation
• Same with restaurants - the vastness of France means not every restaurant will translate into English unlike the tourist hotspots of Spain
• Travel - requires a car and some competency to drive on the other side
• Lack of package holiday culture - visiting France can take a bit more effort
• Weather - perception that you can't guarantee sun and sand

We love it though. I like visiting other places as well but if you don't want a 30 degree + Med holiday, France is a brilliantly diverse place for fantastic holidays

I’ve not heard of that. Is it about party places like Ibiza and English breakfasts in Benidorm ?

I’ve seen Hollywood A list go to Spain on holiday.

We are just back from 12 days in France. I don't think anyone we told considered that we were going on an upmarket holiday.

My friends know that we tend to book independently: fly, hire a car, get an AirBnB and that we'd do that whether we were in Spain, France or wherever.

I think Spain, France and Portugal are all large enough to have any sort of holiday you want.

Middle classes idea of a holiday is something that requires work- always have to be achieving and working on something.
Working classes want a well earned rest with people waiting on them.
Im with the latter.

Brilliant point!

I’m with the latter too!

You've pretty much described our recent holiday, though we didn't travel around.
Self catered, lots of exploring (not always getting it right!), eating out (again, not always getting it right).
We'd do that in whatever country we were in though.

It's down to the type of tourism offered previously.

Spain has had mass tourism to packaged holiday places with strips of English pubs and cafes selling egg and chips for a certain type of uk tourist. Plus places where tourists can bar crawl and get pissed and loud. Obviously not all of Spain is like this but that is the image of some tourist spots in Spain.

France has never had that. Despite pp saying parts of Nice are scummy and drug riddled (which modern city isn't?), the Cote D'Azur with Nice, Cannes, Antibes, St Tropez is extremely, incredibly wealthy and expensive. Plus all the other places: Loire valley; Bordeaux, etc. It's generally people staying in gites or villas etc. You do not find mass produced 'holiday villages' attached to golf courses like you do in Spain. So it does attract different types of people. I've never come across crowds of pissed twenty somethings drinking their way through a French beach resort.

Because the poor people are less likely to holiday there. No other reason.

I've been to all three and have never been on a package holiday. If you stay away from the resorts, they are all fabulous: beautiful architecture, beaches, villages, cities, cuisine, scenery. It's like going to Blackpool on holiday and saying the UK is a dump.

For one thing, France is a richer country.
But also, General Franco (Spain's fascist dictator) was behind the development of Spain as a cheap tourist destination. A good way of "whitewashing" his regime.

Don't forget that until Spain and Portugal joined the EC, they were still very poor countries.

I've never thought of France as upmarket (my ex was French so been there a lot) but the French are very... French!

And they therefore say "non" to the tacky English chav holidays or stag/hen drunken parties.as their stereotype of an English person is that we drink far too much! It just doesn't fit with their French culture.

I love visiting France, and find that if you make an effort to speak French, the French are lovely to you. They just don't tolerate those who expect them to speak English, make no effort to speak French, then repeat it LOUDER when they reply in French as if they're deaf! I've witnessed this a lot!

Spain does have a reputation of drunken English louts on holiday, and perhaps that's why they're now rebelling against this and making the English less welcome. A friend of mine has been every year to Spain and said that this was the first time they didn't feel welcome there!

No idea about Portugal - I have never considered it tacky like Spain, more cultural??! Happy to be corrected on that one!

And to camp you probably need to own a car, own a decent tent (not cheap!) and own other camping paraphernalia. You either need to have some money or be the sort of person who takes things quite seriously, neither of which is like the stereotypical package holidayer. I don't know that it's true though. Lots of people stay on campsites in France in cabins either privately or with companies like Eurocamp or in AirB&Bs/gites. I wouldn't say either is upmarket but they certainly attract middle class tourists.

I get what you mean, OP. I’ve lived in France for a year abroad and been to Paris many times but would never think to book a package holiday there.

I once tried to book a holiday to Provence and just felt overwhelmed by it all.

It’s really weird as I’d say I’m pretty well travelled, have been to 30+ countries, as far as China.

I don’t think France is automatically considered to be more “upmarket”.

There is quite a specific thing with Spain and Portugal that they were the targets for a lot of budget holidays targeted at Brits for many years, hence the creation of cheap hotspots around the Costa Blanca/Costa Del Sol (and more recently Barcelona) etc. Ditto the Algarve. But that applies to particular regions rather than a whole country. There are plenty of very upmarket places in Spain and cheap ones in France.

It’s a bit like saying “Scotland is more upmarket than England” if you’re comparing a bijoux castle in the Cairngorms with a trailer in Skegness (sorry Skeggy). Ignoring the fact that England has four bedroom luxury lodges in Norfolk and Scotland has grim estates.

You have to compare like for like for this to be meaningful.

I’m just going to give a shoutout to Spanish wine. Delicious! Even some of the €5 supermarket stuff.

Maybe certain resorts in the Algarve eg Albuferia or Praia de Rocha cater more to the British market that likes an All Day Full English plus 3 euro pints, sky sports etc..

I don't really consider any country to be any more 'upmarket' than any other, really - either for a holiday or anything else. France doesn't, as far as I know, have the same kind of massive package-holiday holiday resorts that are more or less purpose-built that Spain does, so maybe that's what people are thinking of when they're considering Spain less upmarket - but obviously the vast majority of Spain is absolutely nothing like that at all. There are big resort towns, sure, but they're the minority (even among coastal places).

Torres is lovely!

As other people have said, it's a richer country, you don't get big AI holiday resorts or English breakfasts served in towns in France unless there is the odd pub but it still won't be cheap.

I think Portugal is slightly more upmarket than Spain though. Spain has some really touristy low market areas. Portugal has the Algarve I guess but that can't be compared to the likes of Benidorm.