Aibu to not understand why France is considered more upmarket than Spain or Portugal?

[Janesygal]

Just that.. It's right across the channel, our nearest neighbours so why is it considered more upmarket than Spain, the Spanish islands or Portugal?

I think just because Spain has quite a big share of the all-inclusive market and some major, unsympathetic development of parts of their coastal regions. France doesn't really offer the same type of holiday.

It's no reflection on the entire country being less upmarket, just that specific tourist market.

@Sunsgoingtokeepshining If you think Benidorm is all there is to Spain you must be poorly educated.

A long reputation for high end fashion and fine dining. Why just compare to Spain? France is generally considered more upmarket than many, many other countries for these reasons.

I'm surprised Annecy wasn't upmarket... Venice of the Alps apparently

I'm not sure why the comparisons to Spain/Portugal either really. They're very different countries culturally, in a culinary sense, in terms of their political/economic histories, and so on. France also borders Belgium, Switzerland, Germany etc. and France isn't like them either

It isn’t intrinsically, there are lots of smart holiday destinations in all of them.

Spain just happens to have the famous Benidorm etc. I guess it was cheaper originally so that’s why it grew up.

I love all three countries, and I've only once been on a package holiday when I bought a week in Albufueira one Friday to fly on Saturday. But I was travelling solo in October 1985 so the experience was probably atypical.

All three countries have resort towns that are mobbed during northern Europe's summer holiday periods. Friday and Saturday nights in Spanish cities are often very raucous!

Money. Spain and Greece went all out in the 70s and 80s to attract the low budget holiday crowd. That stuff sticks in certain places.

There certainly are cheap and cheerful beach holiday places in France - Cap D'Agde, La Grande Motte, Marseillan Plage etc... but they mainly tend to be French families who go (and sex people at Agde)

France was historically considered upmarket because that's where the wealthy and aristocratic British traditionally holidayed. At the time, the hoi palloi could only dream of going abroad and they naturally dreamt of going to France, because that's where all the toffs went so it must be special. The South of France was almost a wealthy British enclave at one point. Paris also was considered the most glamorous and romantic city in the world, as well as the epicentre of fashion, and the whole country was lauded for its cuisine and wine. Certainly up until the 1980's, going out for an upmarket meal almost always meant going to a French restaurant. So France, rightly or wrongly, developed an aura of upmarketness and something to aspire to.

When package holidays exploded in the early 1960's it made foreign travel accessible to working class brits who mostly flocked to Spain because the Spanish built cheap, high rise hotels. You could enjoy English fry ups, bingo and your usual pint of beer. Although there were package holidays to France, they were much more expensive and they did not cater to the tastes of that demographic. So, France retained its allure and sense of poshness.

We love a French beach holiday and go right down to Occitanie or Languedoc but tend to stay in hotels or apartments.

Oh it was!! The campsite we were at def was not tho

We had a few days touring round Poitiers, Saumur and then to La Rochelle. Poiters a lively student town, but like all large town and cities some less desirable areas on the outskirts. We went into Saumur town centre. First bar we came across was a Liverpool football bar. A few nice restaurants, but round the corner a small supermarket with a couple of beggers and a group of teenagers hanging about. Just like in the UK. Driving to La Rochelle we were diverted through a very suspicious estate on the outskirts of Niort, would not want to stop there. When we checked the place out, apparantly it is a hub for drug dealers. A big bust took place that week of dealers bring a haul from Paris on the train. La Rochelle? Lovely round the harbour, lots of restaurants, bars and a buzzing atmosphere. But, like port cities all over the world, seedy streets close by. The South of France has some super upmarket resorts, but also has ghettos of immigrants from North Africa, particularly Algeria. Paris? Get away from the main areas and it gets very dodgy. The problem is, when you go on holiday, you tend to visit tourist areas. Get away from them and things can be very different.

If the UK (or Spain) was 'preserving it's culture " in the way France is, we'd be branded xenophobic racists. Reading this thread, you would think that Italy didn't exist. I'd pick Barcelona over Paris. The French are fetishised on here, but fine art, music, painters etc equally come from Spain, Italy etc. There does seem to be a lack of knowledge. It's a 'don't believe the hype' situation. The French should feel ashamed over the conditions that the migrants live in, including children, the violence used against them by the police and allowing the gangs to gather people and sail from the beaches. It's all emperor's new clothes.

This probably nails much of it.

It's no secret that every country/city/town has its affluent bits and its rougher parts, but this thread is about perception and why France is seen as the 'upmarket' choice.

Of course the whole of France isn't Sainte-Maxime, and the whole of Spain isn't Benidorm, but perceptions/reputations established over decades and generations are slow to change.

Less brits abroad who cant go a day without a fry up

Which survey were you looking at? According to this report (June 2016) 73% of respondents living in Spain were intending to vote remain;

In France, Germany and Portugal, Stay was on just over 77 per cent, below Austria on 85 per cent.

In Sweden, the figure was 59 per cent, 60 per cent in Cyprus, 66 per cent in Italy, 73 per cent in Spain and 74 per cent in Belgium.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/eu-referendum-three-quarters-of-british-expats-back-staying-in-eu-a3269901.html

Agree with this, you can't be having a beer at 6am at the airport as you are probably driving, you aren't playing bingo and being entertained, you make your own entertainment. You probably have to interact more with the locals more and aren't just spending a week with other Brits. Middle class people don;t usually go to working men's clubs, it's a similar thing I suppose. Life centers less around the pub, that's not to say there is no drinking as is well discussed on here.

We flew to Germany a few weeks ago with Lufthansa in a lounge that was one where you could pay if you weren't getting in with your airline ticket. The very loud group who were absolutely knocking the free booze back at 7am were off to Spain.

I was a child whose dad went to the pub every day - I was in awe and thought people were really posh who went to France. No one told me that, it was the driving there, not just boozing and lying by the pool, not having a dad who took his shirt off and walked round bear chested in the town - I hated that.

The people i know with strong connections (live there or have 2nd homes) to the EU, tended to vote Leave, funnily enough, it was usually the males who said they voted Leave.

Anyway, what does matter now? we ain't rejoining in our life times.

Italy has some of that type of package with the budget airlines. Even a smattering of all inclusives. Nowhere near as many as Spain or the Algarve, but they do exist.

It's not about it requiring work, imo. It's about having your own private space, rather than having to share public areas, put up with other people's children and compete for loungers by the pool. You can still go out for dinner, so it doesn't have to be more work at all. And you can put the dc to bed and carry on with your evening! I hate not having any private living area to relax in except a hotel bedroom.

Paris innit

I always thought it was because in our imagination, bank/train robbers of old used to take their ill-gotten gains and retire to the Costa del Sol where they would drink beer and eat egg and chips. Whereas in France, elegant people wandered around shopping in Cannes, drinking champagne and wearing cravats on their yachts?

Because the French have marketed themselves that way for centuries!
High end fashion, haute cuisine, style, left wing intellectuals etc etc

Doesn't mean its so now though, and particularly when it comes to holidays. I've had better times in Spain than France.

It's probably because of the all you can eat holidays

I love both France and Spain. We have recently just driven down to very near Cannes, where we had a wonderful 2 weeks..
Last year we went to a beautiful coastal town just outside Benidorm, also a wonderful holiday.
Both times a lovely villa in a lovely town with the best food and great things to do.
We have also done loads of other trips to France over the years, sometimes camping and sometimes staying in hotels, and some (I have to say it ) AI trips to Spain and the Canary Islands. Those holidays worked for us when the children were small and spending money was tight. I just love both countries so much.
I haven't been to Portugal, but hope to do so next year.
I have been to a lot of other places but I just love France and Spain.