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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to refuse to work with my backstabber colleague?

177 replies

bettysyourauntie · 22/08/2024 01:28

A few months ago, I resigned from a senior role at a company, marking the end of a significant project where I played a key role in rescuing a client from a dire situation. I saw the project through to completion, delivering exceptional results. The firm profited greatly from my efforts and unique skills in the industry.
Despite the challenges which were many, I recognised the importance of this project and found satisfaction in many aspects of it. This kept me going as in the office, and outside of the day-to-day project tasks, I was very unhappy. I endured a toxic work culture and poor leadership devoid of people skills and emotional intelligence.

Just as I was on the verge of resigning, I was blindsided by a colleague I trusted and believed I had a strong working relationship with. We collaborated closely, and I felt he valued my leadership and judgment. I was his sounding board for navigating difficult situations, and we spent countless hours strategising together. Yet, he was the typical self-promoter, taking my ideas and presenting them as his own in front of the client. The particular incident was a betrayal. It was unprofessional, nasty, and utterly unexpected, leaving me hurt and confused.

In response, I decided to go on my own, launching a business in the sector and building on the reputation I earned from my last job. I became known as "the cleaner" - the go-to person for turning around difficult situations.

When I left, there were no efforts to retain me. It was clear I was angry and upset, but I also sensed their nervousness about the sudden drop in income as the highest fee-generating job in the firm came to a hard stop. My departure announcement was likely seen as a relief as my salary was on the upper end of the scale and so it was perhaps a good outcome all around. I must admit, that despite all this, I thought it was a bit strange and shortsighted but at the same time, they have not been known to bother with retention on other occasions so not surprising either.

Fast forward a few months, and my old boss suddenly called. He was all smiles and sweet talk, which immediately made me suspicious. As it turns out, a client is eager to engage the firm, but only if I am part of the team. They want to repeat the success of the other job they've heard much about. With the right CVs on the ticket, my old boss is confident they have secured the job and are likely to start in a couple of weeks.

Now, I'm facing a dilemma. Since starting my business, I've only secured small jobs. I have exciting and promising leads for more lucrative contracts in the near future and I have definitely managed so far to attract attention from the right people. If anything materialises work will not start for a few weeks still. Money is a bit tight, and I can't afford a long dry spell. But should I say yes just because the opportunity is there? I'd be working with the same colleague and I can't shake off the hurt.

The Pros: Immediate income (only 3 d/wk for min 1 year, which is also a negative as I will need to find a filler for the other two days to maintain a good level of income). I will be further strengthening my CV and position in the sector and working with this client may potentially open doors to future opportunities.

The Cons: It's a part-time contract. But mainly again - do I really want to work with someone who backstabbed me?

I wonder how different would it be as a contractor, an outsider, avoiding office politics and self-promoting colleagues. What are the real risks for me here?

So, am I being foolish or unreasonable to consider turning down the offer? If I say no, there’s a good chance they'll lose the opportunity. Sweet revenge, or am I just shooting myself in the foot?

OP posts:
JaxiiTaxii · 22/08/2024 10:34

Before making any decision, I'd write my list of non negotiables - maybe working with the bastard might be one aka 'chosing own team' and work by your company is credited and remains on headed presentations etc - and my desirables, and then have a meeting with the guy who's desperate to employ you to see how he reacts.

Let that inform your decision & the contract you draw up.

If it's 'oh we have already ask the bastard to lead this one' you know to run for the hills.

bunnypenny · 22/08/2024 10:35

I haven’t read all the comments but ensure that if you do operate as a contractor it doesn’t reset the non-compete/non-solicitation restrictions that are in place as a result of your employment contract.

bettysyourauntie · 22/08/2024 10:37

ooooohnoooooo · 22/08/2024 08:35

Honestly working as an external is a different world as along as you play the game. The money is a game changer too. Remember the Damart they paid you then remember that they have to add c30% onto that for NI, insurance, pension, holiday etc . So go for a high day rate. Take it or leave it.

You don't have to deal with internal corporate shit like appraisals, internal meetings and promotion, career progression stuff. So you don't care how blunt you are.

The only thing that matters is the client result. You can boldly say 'no I'm not doing that because it's not in the client interest'.

You can escalate without fear of repercussions. You don't care about them.

And yes, a straight talk with backstabber. 'I know what you did, you know what you did. I'm back here because the customer has asked for me. They know my skills and they can see right through you. If you ever pull tricks like that again I will expose it. Don't mess with me'. Smile sweetly and exit. He will be too stunned to speak, and don't let him.

this is excellent and I wish I was the type to play it out like that with him

OP posts:
DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 22/08/2024 10:39

Ottersmith · 22/08/2024 03:10

I would say no and then poach the client. You don't want to work with these people again.

This.

I know its a business relationship... but if it was a personal relationship and you'd ended it due to unreasonable behaviour - would you go back for more?

This person has injured you mentally, stolen your ideas and claimed your victories for himself. He's an abusive character. He was able to do this because of the poor culture in your workplace, which you've escaped from...

You left and the net result is, that as they (the instigators of the toxic culture) didn't even try to win you back, the only way they can get the contract is with you. The client has said so and the old boss told you that.

Would going back signal he's got away with it and is free to do it again? What further damage could this colleague do? I expect that Iago is fuming that you are seen as crucial to the project, and a person who puts ambition and advancement before good behaviour might resent that.

You hold all the cards. They can't get this job without you. Make sure if you do go back you have iron clad protection, an escape hatch and are paid to the highest amount.

Edited re poaching as it sounds like you might have non compete clauses. But if you don't - maybe that's the way forward.

2sisters · 22/08/2024 10:42

Personally, I feel you should never go back. I've done it and I wouldn't do it again. It was a mistake. I think it's better to do things from a stance of inspiration rather than desperation. Although, obviously inspiration doesn't pay the bills.

DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 22/08/2024 10:52

Maybe the way to think of it is this.
You are two months into the contract, the pressure of bills is off, but its same old same old dealing with Iago. And you still have 10 months to go.

Would you have enough time to concentrate on building your new business? Would you have the mental energy?
Is it likely that Iago & Co could do things to underplay your role, or damage your rep given that you are now a competitor and they've seen how well you are viewed by the industry.

That's the cons.

What would the pros be.

Are you able to live on a skeleton budget whilst you pursue the other three leads you have? If the other firm don't get the contract... perhaps the client may look to you? The client can hire solicitors to work out if its possible to do that with a no compete clause, or delay the official start date until it iis.

senua · 22/08/2024 10:53

Personally, I feel you should never go back. I've done it and I wouldn't do it again.
I've done it and it was OK! I left because of the toxic CEO (everyone else was lovely). My replacement didn't work out so the Board sent a deputation to ask me to come back. I said I would, but only if I reported to someone else. I got a huge rise out of them, too.
TLDR: going back can work but you have to lay ground rules.

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 22/08/2024 10:56

Agapornis · 22/08/2024 02:24

Say yes - on the condition that you get to pick your own team/veto backstabber. Make sure you get that in writing.

Never speak to backstabber again.

And a pay rise

Oopsadaisy92 · 22/08/2024 10:58

Do it on contract so you are still working for yourself and demanding a daily rare at a higher amount. It seems they want you more than you want them so just be a cheeky as possible.

Harassedevictee · 22/08/2024 11:13

It’s 3 days a week for a year so 156 days less holiday.
You have 2 days a week to work on your own clients.
It’s a guaranteed income for 12 months.
You can negotiate a higher rate of pay, enabling you to build a bigger cushion for your business.
You can negotiate that your business is credited as a partner, this will help raise your business’ profile. It will also be clearer what you are responsible for to clients etc.

You can negotiate upfront how successful completion of the project will be used for PR and your contribution recognised.
I hope you have a brand/logo that can be added to the company’s stationery, your email etc. This is free PR for you. It would also put colleague in their place as they are part of X company’s team but you are Y company.

pp have suggested other things you can do/negotiate e.g. being in all meetings etc. adding your terms to the contract.

This is a business negotiation set your bar high and let them negotiate down.

Georgethecat1 · 22/08/2024 11:16

Accept it but put more boundaries in place to suit you. It’s minimum a year but you want a rolling monthly contract as a consultant? So you still work for yourself but you get a consultant salary? That should be a full time salary on 3 days

LurkingInTheDark · 22/08/2024 11:24

Read your updates but not the whole thread.

Realistically, where do you see yourself in say 3 - 5 years ideally?

Realistically, how will taking this job impact that?

  1. Assume the culture and everything about your experience at that company was good; i.e. no issues from emotional/personal point of view - but how will it impact your 3 - 5 year plan?
  2. Take the real scenario; culture wasn’t great, issues with colleague. If under acenario 1. Taking the job would more likely have negative impact on your 3 - 5 year plan you know the answer (think short term vs long term). If, however, under scenario 1. taking the job is also more likely to have positive impact on your 3-5 year plan have a little think how bad really was it emotionally to work in that environment, keeping in mind as few PP said now you would be a contractor which changes the power play.

Comes down to what type of person you are. I’d say if taking the job has other major up sites apart from short term cash injection and you were not in a complete meltdown because of the toxic culture take the job.

If however, main upside is short term cash injection and could actually slow down growing your own business think twice what you really want.

thing47 · 22/08/2024 11:28

I think you're massively underestimating the strength of your position @bettysyourauntie. Of course you can dictate terms about who you are or aren't prepared to work with, that's the whole point of working for yourself! You can push back on this.

FWIW DH had a similar position a couple of years back, a project manager shafted him when something went wrong and blamed him – didn't really matter as it was something which didn't affect his reputation (or his pay). The next time that company wanted to use him, he said he wouldn't work with that project manager. At first they didn't believe him, then when they realised he was serious they tried to throw their weight around and said he couldn't dictate to them. He just replied that no, he couldn't, but he could turn down the job. The client really, really wanted him – just as they do in your situation – so ultimately they assigned a different project manager, project went smoothly, everyone was happy – including, most importantly, the client.

bettysyourauntie · 22/08/2024 12:36

thank you all for all these hugely helpful comments. At this point, I am inclined towards refusing the opportunity (politely), mainly for the risk of working with untrustworthy people who are capable of throwing people under the bus when it suits them. Business or not, the reality is that it is damaging, time-consuming and nasty to deal with. Why take this risk? I am not super desperate and pretty confident other opportunities will come up. I have not decided 100% that this is definitely it but that's where my head is at right now.

I got sent the contract this morning and skimming through it I am reminded of the culture and personalities I will have to negotiate. Also, my sense is that if I drop a big number dayrate they will likely not accept it anyway because, at the end of the day, they won't take the work at all costs.

And then I may be wrong!! AHHHHHHH

OP posts:
HollyKnight · 22/08/2024 13:12

Well, if you are inclined to not take the job, there is no harm in giving them a BIG number. If they so no, you won't have lost anything because you didn't even want the role. And if they say yes, all the money might make things more bearable.

TemuSpecialBuy · 22/08/2024 13:16

Good luck with it OP whatever you decide.

let us know how it pans out!!!

DramaAlpaca · 22/08/2024 14:21

I'm only going to give you one piece of advice, and that is to never go back to a toxic workplace if you can possibly avoid it.

theurbanpigeon · 22/08/2024 14:22

It sounds like you should trust your gut and focus on moving forward with your new venture rather than getting dragged back into an old toxic environment.

The way you have framed it, the opportunity cost of doing this work (a) may divert you from several potentially lucrative new client relationships; (b) may lead to you being somehow screwed over and set back by an untrustworthy team.

Trust yourself and your abilities - you are clearly highly capable given the successes you have achieved recently and the outcomes you've delivered.

viques · 22/08/2024 14:25

Refuse the offer. Explain why.

thing47 · 22/08/2024 14:52

HollyKnight · 22/08/2024 13:12

Well, if you are inclined to not take the job, there is no harm in giving them a BIG number. If they so no, you won't have lost anything because you didn't even want the role. And if they say yes, all the money might make things more bearable.

100% what @HollyKnight says. If you're honestly not that bothered about this piece of work, that makes your negotiating position even stronger. Just say 'my price is x' and 'my Ts and Cs are that [backstabber] isn't involved'. They can take it or leave it, according to how much they want/need the contract.

something2say · 22/08/2024 15:02

I'd take the work.

You don't ever forget how people are, but you don't cut your own nose off. You are just wiser going forwards and I always reflect on a university teacher who told me I'd be lucky to get between 3 and 5 real friends in life. Work friends are not amongst that number.

The main reason I'd take it in your shoes? You said money is a bit tight and you could do with it.

You sound like a high earner - where has your safety / power / saved money gone??? Take the job and feather your nest. You cannot afford to satisfy your emotions when the bills cannot be guaranteed to be paid.

So two points from me - suck it up but never forget, and get money behind you. THEN you are in a stronger position.

I am sorry btw, the way you write about how hurt you were; I can really feel it.

CeruleanBelt · 22/08/2024 15:30

Haven't read the whole thread but you'll basically be free lancing for them, they desperately need you- so set your terms accordingly! Make them pay handsomely for you.

theemmadilemma · 22/08/2024 15:36

What @GustyFinknottle said.

How stupid are they? Approach the client.

bettysyourauntie · 22/08/2024 15:43

theemmadilemma · 22/08/2024 15:36

What @GustyFinknottle said.

How stupid are they? Approach the client.

honestly, I can't do this right away, literally a second after they told me about the job. I will have their lawyers on the phone in no time. I don't think it will land well with the client also. I have some integrity.

OP posts:
wasdarknowblond · 23/08/2024 18:20

I’d go for it. Lots to be gained. Just be very ‘professional’ with the back-stabber. You can cope with someone weak like they are. Good luck!