Holiday with another family and behaviour of their ASD child

[upoutandin87]

Currently on holiday with my family and another family (old friends) they have 2 older children same age as my kids and they also now have a 6 yr old. We have holidayed with them before but not since the youngest was born. Youngest is ND (autism and suspected ADHD). My son is 15 and autistic so I know about ASD but there DD seems out of control and we can't cope with it. She swears spits hits and throws furniture if she doesn't get her own way - there is no routine and she basically gets what she wants - she slapped my DD earlier today and called her a f b because she didn't want to go in the pool with her - my friends answer to this was you cannot say no to her - if you don't do what she wants she kicks off so we have to let her do what she wants. My friends DH and 2 older kids can't cope with her so they go to the beach and take my 15 yr old with them - I prefer being by the pool so I stay with them and my DD 17. We honestly don't know what to do as our holiday is being ruined by a 7 yr old. She threw my bag in the pool yesterday and I was fuming. We are trying to do stuff without them but they seem to be constantly appearing - they never raise their voice at their DD or tell her to stop as negative language makes her worse. Last night their 15 yr old told my son that she has been permanently excluded from her primary school and she currently has no school place from September - I was aware she has had several exclusions for violence but only short term exclusions but her parents have not mentioned to us about the exclusion. My DH wants us to cut all ties with them until they start parenting their child properly. We are only 3 days in to a 10 day holiday and are tempted to fly home to get away from them. I feel so bad as I am an SEN parent myself but they won't take any advice from us about maybe having a routine and setting boundaries. I so feel for them as they are completely broken by her behaviour but I don't actually know what I can do to help.

I was told years ago, the only thing more difficult than a disabled child is a spoilt disabled child. So it may be because she’s always got her own way.

Or, along with ASD she may have oppositional defiance disorder. I’ve work with a very similar child, who you could not say no to. I’d have to reword everything so it sounded like her idea. However, I made it very clear (she was 9 so it was easier) that once she was ten years old, if she hit me, spat at me etc, then I would be calling the police. She never once touched me - although she still did to others.

I can only sympathise OP. You’ll need to distance yourself if you want to rescue your holiday. Sad as it sounds, your friends problems are not yours. I’m guessing you’ve saved for this holiday and want to enjoy it?

We don't know enough about the situation to judge @Merryoldgoat.

If the messaging from her parents is ‘we can’t say no ever’ then she is being let down.

Yes, but dont go on holiday with another family then!

On reflection, the person I am extremely unimpressed with in this situation is the friend's DH! How dare he dump his disregulated daughter on a woman and a girl who are virtual strangers, leaving his wife to carry the can? Awful.

Finally! Someone who knows what they're talking about. Very well said.

That's not exactly what was said though so not sure why it's in quotation marks.
You've added in the ever part yourself. They try not to rock the boat when at home, that's clear.
The child's mother also said

but its harder to give in all the time when not at home

which implies outside the home they do say no sometimes.

I don’t think there’s any point trying to work out how the DD could be better parented. Your friend’s DH is already at his wits end, your friend probably isn’t having a great time either but may see no other choice. She’s probably been doing the best she can. You may well be right that the DD would do better with some routine, but that doesn’t mean that’s the advice your friend needs from you right now. And even if it was it’s highly unlikely that a routine instigated now would make the holiday better.

I think you should look for alternative accommodation, apologize to your friend for ditching them but tell her, as kindly as you can, that there is no way you can stay and subject your kids to this environment as their holiday. If you can get some accommodation close enough, you could arrange meet ups with, say, just you and the mum for an evening. If it would be well received and you want to, offer for their older DCs to stay with you, it sounds like they could use a break from their sister. If you feel up to it (I don’t think I would), offer to take the DD for a few hours one afternoon or evening so your friend and her DH can have a small amount of respite.

Try to be clear about your needs without criticising her parenting. If she asks for suggestions tell her what worked for your DS and your experience of trying different things, of getting over the hard parts, of how long it took for helpful approaches to have an impact. Etc. And point her towards resources. But don’t be another voice that just tells her she’s doing things wrong and, in effect, that it’s her fault. Even if it’s the case, it’s not going to help her change.

They’ve done wrong not to tell you what she was like before the holiday. Can you move hotels or just spend the days with your family only? Their poor 15 year old!

What I don’t understand is that people here say OP needs to have more ‘compassion’ towards this ND child. Whilst it must be an absolute nightmare for the parents of the little girl in question, OP & her family has every right to enjoy her holiday in peace without being subjected to abuse. Swearing, throwing furniture & damaging OP’s items. You can hold your friends’s hand but it doesn’t mean you have to be subjected to this horrible behaviour ND or not. It may be easier for your old friends to parent if you’re not around OP because they can concentrate on tending to their child more. Going on holiday with someone is tricky. We all know how expensive it is to go away these days especially in August. You must have worked your butt off all year for this trip. I’d either change accommodation or speak to your friends and explain to them how you feel OP

You need to steer clear of them and fo your own thing on holiday with your own family. As a teacher I have had to deal with this sort of thing a lot. This child needs boundaries, regardless of whether she'll kick off. They are doing her no favours. See if you can switch villas; otherwise stay away as much as possible. Explain to the parents that you were upset to have your bag thrown into the pool. The parents need to understand that in the real world actions have consequences. Tell them that you don't want your children listening to that bad language. Be boundaried, but don't cancel your holiday.

I agree with this. I have no personal experience of children with autism but I know of a friend's neighbour who has severe autism and their behaviour is similar to what OP describes. Shouting/raising your voice at them can make situation worse and setting boundaries takes on a new meaning.

I also think any heart to heart with the mother should make it clear her marriage may end over this decision to never say no to the child and her older children may well leave with their father.

Seen it.

OP isn’t asking what advice she can give her friend. She’s looking for an escape route!!

Stay away or book another hotel - they may have a sister hotel you can swap to. Worth asking.

I am absolutely appalled that they did not have a conversation with you about what to expect from their DDs behaviour before you agreed, took time off work and parted with your hard earned cash for this holiday.

They are either wilfully delusional or they naively thought being away with your family would aomehow make things easier. Either way, THEY should be the ones now facing this head on, apologising and offering a solution for obviously causing so much upheaval/unnecessary compromise in another families holiday.

Or at least cry out for help and stop pretending its all ok!!!

They are not shitty parents but it is wrong of them to tell op that everyone needs to do what their dd wants after she slapped Op's dd.
They know their daughter, they should not have done this trip if their dd have violent tendencies. Least they could have done is to apologise to op's dd for the slap she received, not tell her that she needed to agree to everything their dd asks.

Oof. My heart goes out to you and to them. I have a son with what sounds like a similar profile and the realisation that there are some things you just can’t do is incredibly hard and sad. Particularly if you have older children who have been used to things that are now impossible, which thankfully is not our situation.

I doubt they expected or intended this, but it is their responsibility to deal with the fall out. If anyone should be leaving or moving.
it should be them, and I wonder if sitting down to discuss it might make them realise that someone needs to take the little girl home or at least make sure she’s heavily supervised and removed at the first sign of being disregulated. We do holiday and take day trips with other people, but only when we are absolutely sure if there is a ‘no escape’ situation that everyone involved understands what might happen if our son decides it’s not the trip for him. We’ll separate off, or even go home if we are inconveniencing or upsetting other people.

You are 100% not being unreasonable, but please try not to give them both barrels when you discuss it if you can manage it.

This isn’t poor parenting as much as it’s tearing up the rule book and starting again and it’s hugely challenging and distressing. There are differing views on how to parent children with demand avoidant profiles. We weren’t prepared to go down the (popular at the moment) road of removing all demand and letting our son rule the roost, but it is one way. If you make that choice it’s easier day to day I guess, but this is the payback for the easier option. Managing demand and helping them find their way through it is exhausting and never ending, but allows a degree of flexibility and the opportunity for the rest of the family to live more of a normal life.

They might well be trying to muddle through for the older kids. So difficult

Hire an apartment or villa for your family and leave them to it. Don’t fly home.

holiday time is precious,

This reminds me of the time I went on a holiday for the disabled my son who was then about 18. He is severely autistic and has additional dx. We had a great time and a few days into the holiday another family arrived with their son and the people running the holiday Centre teamed us up in all the activities. It was a disaster. My son couldn’t cope with the other lad and one day when we went rowing on the lake as one of the activities my son rowed away from them whilst shouting go away, go away. And If that wasn’t bad enough the family then complained and even the organisers said - we thought you’d all be company for each other. I wish we could have been. I really do. But there was no way my son could cope with the other lad. And no doubt there have been people around my son who’ve found it difficult. It’s ok. It really is. I know because my son showed me it’s ok.

Tbh, it’s all well and good expecting OPs family to accommodate and put up with bad behaviour which is affecting the enjoyment of their holiday, but this might be the only holiday OP has had this year, and I’m sure wanted it to be enjoyable and relaxing - holidays aren’t cheap. Being brutal, it’s not their circus, and OP has a right not to have to put up and shut up. I’d just take myself and my own family off to do our own thing.

The parents need to have a routine in place. That poor child don't know whether she is coming or going, bless her.

This is really on them. There’s no shame in struggling to parent a PDA ASD child but to arrange a holiday with another family without full disclosure is insane! Sounds like they are in total denial and survival mode. I would change accommodation for your family’s sake and have a conversation. It’s totally reasonable to say that their DD is clearly struggling to be regulated and her behaviour is making it too hard for your family to enjoy your holiday. No judgement, just facts. Clearly things are untenable for them if their son is considering moving out, but their inability to face reality is not your problem.

Bluntly I think anyone removing all demands from a PDA child is abusive and setting them up for a lifetime of misery. Low demand - negotiable. No demand - absurd, impossible and failing a child unless they are so severely impaired they will basically spend their lives in a padded cell heavily sedated.

Yikes, don't be giving out parenting advice or having heart to hearts.

Remove your family from the situation by whatever means seems most practical.

That's all you can reasonably do.

Run.