Holiday with another family and behaviour of their ASD child

[upoutandin87]

Currently on holiday with my family and another family (old friends) they have 2 older children same age as my kids and they also now have a 6 yr old. We have holidayed with them before but not since the youngest was born. Youngest is ND (autism and suspected ADHD). My son is 15 and autistic so I know about ASD but there DD seems out of control and we can't cope with it. She swears spits hits and throws furniture if she doesn't get her own way - there is no routine and she basically gets what she wants - she slapped my DD earlier today and called her a f b because she didn't want to go in the pool with her - my friends answer to this was you cannot say no to her - if you don't do what she wants she kicks off so we have to let her do what she wants. My friends DH and 2 older kids can't cope with her so they go to the beach and take my 15 yr old with them - I prefer being by the pool so I stay with them and my DD 17. We honestly don't know what to do as our holiday is being ruined by a 7 yr old. She threw my bag in the pool yesterday and I was fuming. We are trying to do stuff without them but they seem to be constantly appearing - they never raise their voice at their DD or tell her to stop as negative language makes her worse. Last night their 15 yr old told my son that she has been permanently excluded from her primary school and she currently has no school place from September - I was aware she has had several exclusions for violence but only short term exclusions but her parents have not mentioned to us about the exclusion. My DH wants us to cut all ties with them until they start parenting their child properly. We are only 3 days in to a 10 day holiday and are tempted to fly home to get away from them. I feel so bad as I am an SEN parent myself but they won't take any advice from us about maybe having a routine and setting boundaries. I so feel for them as they are completely broken by her behaviour but I don't actually know what I can do to help.

I agree with you, but I do try to be mindful of the fact that I have all sorts of advantages, resources and support at my fingertips. If my situation were different I can imagine I’d be much more likely to make a different choice. I don’t know if you’re speaking from experience in which case you already know this, but managing demand avoidance and teaching self regulation is utterly relentless. It works, but it’s a full time job.

A 15 year old won't hit a 6 year old unless they're related
Come on!
That's not knocking the 15 year olds able to restrain/divert a SEND child, of which I've known several. Some of whom have more empathy and practical common sense than grown adults.
It is not the OP's DD's job though (or a sibling's for that matter) and the OP has been given lots of good advice on here (hoping that the thread is here in good faith and not because it's Summer Term given it's the second ND on holiday thread I've seen today).

Alternatively, the marriage ends because the Mum is fed up that she's the only one who tries to manage the behaviour/deals with the child, as the Dad "can't cope"pisses off to the beach but the Mum seemingly has to. It's a miracle!
Seen it 1000x

I would move to another hotel and tell them you dont want to be around them until they learn to control their daughter. If she is like this at 7, wtf will she be like as a teenager?? I really feel for their older kid, poor thing.

What I find very interesting - kids with these kinds of ND existed before, but I've never heard of this kind of behaviour when I was growing up in the 80s.

Personally, I’d find alternative accommodation but suggest meeting the older kids at the beach once so they know they’re not being rejected. The parents clearly need a shock to wake them up from their ineffectual parenting.

I and my two kids are ASD/ADHD so know there are challenges. DH and I set clear boundaries and consequences. My eldest has MH issues, but neither of my children has ever misbehaved, made other people uncomfortable or embarrassed us.

Find another place to stay. You deserve a real holiday.

This violent 6-7 year-old is going to seriously harm or kill someone. You don't want it to be you or your children.

I suppose it's because it's either nipped in the bud early or disciplined out of them (not the ND but the bad behaviour) and they learn different ways to behave, or those who are unable to cope are hidden out of sight or taken into some sort of institution.

Nowadays, no one knows which is which. If it's because they really are unable to learn the right things to do no matter what or because many adults allow it without redirecting, discipline, teaching and guiding, and let the behaviour develop into something uncontrollable.

What do you mean ?

You can set boundaries without shouting and screaming though. I certainly can with mine. It's all about being firm and keeping one's calm. That's why parents need to relay each other with an ND child because you always need to keep your calm and It's hard when someone is screaming insults at you, shouting, spitting, hitting themselves. Some of the most adored and efficient teachers my DC have had were very strict and tolerated no bs. They never had to raise their voices because the children respected them and knew there would be consequences if they did not behave.

OP's friends need to set boundaries but noone was talking about shouting. Rather calmly say "you stop hitting/shouting/whatever or I will take you to our room" then execute. Every single time.

So then...............what happens when the parents of this young girl arent around any more in years to come. Are they going to expect the older siblings to care for her (including one who is so sick of all this that he wants to move in with his gran) Because the resentment of being put through this makes the possiblity of the older siblings stepping up extremely unlikely. I bet the parents havent thought this far ahead at all

Just because the child is demonstrating disregulated behaviour in a new place doesn't mean she's doomed to a life of crime and despair. She's a small child with poor impulse control, it sounds

Honestly.

These threads get ridiculous.

I would be pissed off if they hadn’t previously warned you how bad the behaviour was before you booked the holiday. I would be separating myself from them and if they appear tell them you need a break.

Probably because they were shut away from the world or in special schools and certainly not going on holidays and trips.

Also as a child growing up in the 80s you weren't frequenting parenting forums / whatever the equivalent was for parents with disabled kids (or their family and friends) to discuss their issues??

I am speaking from experience but I do also take your point I just feel very strongly that the 'neurodiversity' movement is becoming actively harmful to many ND families and children especially. There's a balance between permanently masking and totally unmasking and doing whatever the fuck you want. Well-meaning and / or exhausted parents are sometimes getting that balance wrong.

@upoutandin87 it is your holiday too and you should be able to enjoy yourself. My first move would to be engineer a situation where you can speak to all the adults alone. It is tough for the other mum so suggest that the two of you can go off to town/spa/whatever for the day. Your DH can take all the older kids to whatever the older kids want to do and the other dad can parent the ND 6 year old for a day.

That gives everyone who needs a break a day off from the 6 year old. It would also give you a chance to talk to your friend, offer her support, or say you can’t deal with this crap and avoid them for the rest of your holiday.

Are you in a rental or in a hotel? If it's a hotel, surely at this point other guests will be complaining to management. In a hotel environment, it's not ok and potentially unsafe to have such a dysregulated child - both for the child herself and for others.

Really they should be ending the holiday for one parent and the youngest child at this point and heading home where hopefully the more familiar environment will help and the older children will actually get a proper holiday from the situation. I can't believe they're letting this happen to be honest. It's really strange behaviour from adults.

Fine, maybe they're struggling, they don't know what to do. Why have they pissed all this money away on a holiday that anyone could have seen was going to be awful for everyone rather than using the money for proper specialist support and advice. Their older child wants to leave home and is locking himself in his room FFS!

The child's behaviour sounds more like PDA than classic ASD and your friends are clearly struggling to cope. I would gently tell them that you need to have some time to yourselves as a family and will be spending the rest of the holiday doing things as a family. While I'm sympathetic to their situation, I don't think it's unfair of you to not want to spend your precious holiday time with them. Try not to judge them for their parenting, it sounds hellish and they are struggling.

Also OP, unless you're an educational psychologist or other specialist you cannot help this family. Sacrificing your family's holiday isn't going to help, in fact you being there might be making the situation worse. Definitely let them know you will be doing things seperately (or at most with their two older children) from now on.

PDA parent silently sobbing in the corner here 🥴

This.
As a SEN parent you should know how hugely different a childs needs can be. I sympathise with your situation but your judgement is only making things worse. As a parent of an ASD/PDA (which sounds like what she is) & ADHD DD I feel for your friends, holidays can be hell but trying to maintain a semblance of 'normality' for your other children sometimes wins through. I can assure you they are as miserable as you are. Having supportive, non judgemental friends can make a huge difference.

Yep ❤️

Taking a seat next to you and joining in with sobbing 😥

And yet no therapy (PBS) is funded here so the kid will never learn (and the parents will never be taught how to teach) accepting "no" or any other denial as an answer. Shame the UK are so anti-PBS.

I don't blame you for your feelings,OP. I just also don't blame the parents. They are lost and scared of their own 7 YEAR OLD and zero people are willing to help them fund proper support to address this now.

She's young. ND children are typically a third behind the developmental age of their NT peers. Just because she lacks developmental capacity to act more adaptively now, doesn't mean she always will.