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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Holiday with another family and behaviour of their ASD child

436 replies

upoutandin87 · 21/08/2024 15:54

Currently on holiday with my family and another family (old friends) they have 2 older children same age as my kids and they also now have a 6 yr old. We have holidayed with them before but not since the youngest was born. Youngest is ND (autism and suspected ADHD). My son is 15 and autistic so I know about ASD but there DD seems out of control and we can't cope with it. She swears spits hits and throws furniture if she doesn't get her own way - there is no routine and she basically gets what she wants - she slapped my DD earlier today and called her a f b because she didn't want to go in the pool with her - my friends answer to this was you cannot say no to her - if you don't do what she wants she kicks off so we have to let her do what she wants. My friends DH and 2 older kids can't cope with her so they go to the beach and take my 15 yr old with them - I prefer being by the pool so I stay with them and my DD 17. We honestly don't know what to do as our holiday is being ruined by a 7 yr old. She threw my bag in the pool yesterday and I was fuming. We are trying to do stuff without them but they seem to be constantly appearing - they never raise their voice at their DD or tell her to stop as negative language makes her worse. Last night their 15 yr old told my son that she has been permanently excluded from her primary school and she currently has no school place from September - I was aware she has had several exclusions for violence but only short term exclusions but her parents have not mentioned to us about the exclusion. My DH wants us to cut all ties with them until they start parenting their child properly. We are only 3 days in to a 10 day holiday and are tempted to fly home to get away from them. I feel so bad as I am an SEN parent myself but they won't take any advice from us about maybe having a routine and setting boundaries. I so feel for them as they are completely broken by her behaviour but I don't actually know what I can do to help.

OP posts:
Balloonhearts · 21/08/2024 18:24

I'd tell your kids to hit her back. If her parents complain just say you can't expect them to be hit and not retaliate. As for not telling her off, I'd yell at her myself. Call her out on her disgusting behaviour and tell her parents there will be no more group outings if she can't behave as no one wants to do anything with her.

m00rfarm · 21/08/2024 18:25

TheDisillusionedAnarchist · 21/08/2024 16:00

Old friends with two older kids who are ‘parented properly’ what is the likelihood they’ve suddenly become crap parents to number three?

That they’ve dropped all the routines and boundaries they had with the older ones and decided just to let her do what she likes? Versus that she has such high, complex needs that they’ve found all their ordinary discipline and boundaries and parenting don’t work and they haven’t yet figured out what does,

Sounds like they need support and kindness not abandoning and criticising by old friends.

And if they were aware of that, why on earth would they go on holiday with friends who did not know how bad things are. Either they are crap parents (but managed OK with the previous kids because they were better behaved by nature) or they are fully aware of the issues and doing what they can. If this is the case, they should not have inflicted themselves on friends during a summer holiday, which is often the only time people get to relax throughout the year.

x2boys · 21/08/2024 18:25

crockofshite · 21/08/2024 18:22

Sedation meds.

Yeah nobody is going to be sedating a six year old child or locking them up 🙄🙄🙄

MillyMollyMandHey · 21/08/2024 18:25

They were massively U to not warn you what a family holiday with them actually looks like before you booked.

Just get up early each day, go out, make plans, tell them you’ll see them later on. Misery loves company but it’s your holiday too.

Garlicnaan · 21/08/2024 18:27

itsgettingweird · 21/08/2024 17:26

It sounds really unfair they have taken her on holiday.

Not just unfair on you but unfair on the poor girl who clearly cannot cope with it.

Parenting her won't mean she can take no any better. It may not change her reaction to no. But they shouldn't be expecting you to do as she says all the time to prevent her reactions. And she'll never have the chance to learn to accept no if she's never given it.

Also if they know she's about to throw your stuff in the pool they should stop her. They need to be watching her like a hawk because they know what the risks of her being upset and overwhelmed are.

This situation isn't fair on anyone tbh. Least of all a disabled child who was already struggling in a familiar environment being taken somewhere strange.

Yeah it's awful for them, but they have to accept their DD needs a different kind of parenting that may mean holidays like this can't happen.

Saying no probably will make it worse. If she has PDA or similar, routine could also make it worse.

But they are going to have to work out what makes it better, somehow. I feel for them. It is incredibly isolating parenting a child like this. And very hard to see your child so dysregulated and unhappy. Hard for the DD too.

I don't think you can blame ineffective parenting, like the parents are shit and that's why she behaves that way. It's not like parenting a neurotypical child. It's a much much harder job, much harder to work out what your child needs, and the chances are the parents are neurodivergent too, and may really struggle to stick to routines or strategies.

Fundays12 · 21/08/2024 18:27

As a mum of a very high needs child with Autism and ADHD plus another undergoing assessment this child's behaviour is really alarming.

A 6 year old swearing is learned behaviour not ASD behaviour. Regardless of any diagnosis if she is allowed to behave terribly she will do.

I think the lack of structure, rules and boundaries probably add to her poor behaviour. Kids tend to feel much safer if all these things are in place and generally behave better.

Yes she probably is struggling but her mum and dad should be supporting her by managing changes, trying to manage the environment, managing any sensory overload she may get and trying to ensure she feels more secured but knows the rules not letting her destroy the holiday.

Personally I would be making myself very scarce. Leave the hotel room and head out without telling them where you are going.

Garlicnaan · 21/08/2024 18:28

Balloonhearts · 21/08/2024 18:24

I'd tell your kids to hit her back. If her parents complain just say you can't expect them to be hit and not retaliate. As for not telling her off, I'd yell at her myself. Call her out on her disgusting behaviour and tell her parents there will be no more group outings if she can't behave as no one wants to do anything with her.

You'd tell 15 and 17 year olds to hit a disabled 7 year old? Wow.

x2boys · 21/08/2024 18:29

crockofshite · 21/08/2024 18:24

Truth can be uncomfortable

No because you are talking shit ,that's why it's embarrassing ,.

Garlicnaan · 21/08/2024 18:29

Balloonhearts · 21/08/2024 18:24

I'd tell your kids to hit her back. If her parents complain just say you can't expect them to be hit and not retaliate. As for not telling her off, I'd yell at her myself. Call her out on her disgusting behaviour and tell her parents there will be no more group outings if she can't behave as no one wants to do anything with her.

Also shouting at a child and telling them no group outings will have less than fuck all effect on some children. I'd bet good money that's the case here.

Nowordsformethanks · 21/08/2024 18:30

I'd be staying away from anyone who hits - SEN or not. Don't let your children think it's okay to endure abuse because..."needs". That's one way to create adults who stay with their abusers.

x2boys · 21/08/2024 18:31

Balloonhearts · 21/08/2024 18:24

I'd tell your kids to hit her back. If her parents complain just say you can't expect them to be hit and not retaliate. As for not telling her off, I'd yell at her myself. Call her out on her disgusting behaviour and tell her parents there will be no more group outings if she can't behave as no one wants to do anything with her.

Lovely let's just beat the autism out of her that will work .

Whatafustercluck · 21/08/2024 18:32

This is so hard to comment on because I see considerable similarities with my own dd (7yo) when she's totally dysregulated. And it's usually much, much worse on holiday. Thankfully, her worst behaviour is directed at dh and I, though. Once she reaches this level of dysregulation, over a protracted period of time without the opportunity to reduce her anxiety, the only way to get her, and us, through it, is to remove all demands in the short term, put up with the disapproving looks from others about our lack of boundaries/ consequences/ behaviour management and just help her regulate first and foremost. The rules come back into play once she is settled. We do have boundaries, she knows right and wrong, and is an absolute delight mostly, well mannered, caring, funny etc. But on her worst days, you'd say she was just doing things to get her own way and we were enabling her behaviour by allowing it to go unchecked. I feel an overwhelming sense of empathy with the parents.

The only thing that gives me pause is that op has said there's a general lack of routine, which I'd agree won't be helping the situation, and may indeed be a big cause of it. They desperately need advice and support, because it sounds like their dd has spiralled completely and they're now struggling to take back the reins.

However. This is your holiday too and, for whatever reason, you were not aware of how badly her behaviour would impact on you and your family. You're close enough friends to holiday together, so I'd expect you to be close enough to explain honestly how you feel: desperately sorry and understanding of their situation, but this isn't what you were expecting and you need some space to enjoy your holiday. As others have said, you may find that they're grateful to you for removing an additional pressure they don't need. As a friend, I'd be enquiring as to what kind of support they have sought, are receiving and if there's anything you can do to help.

NiggleNoggle · 21/08/2024 18:32

@Summerforever234 I am also the parent of a child with PDA but I would never have inflicted their behaviour on others to the extent that a holiday was ruined for everyone else.

I actually think it's unforgivable that the other family has not been honest before the holiday about the challenges they all might face when away (so that the OP could choose to try and accommodate/support etc. if they even felt they could)

@upoutandin87 I think you should just find other accommodation and try to continue your holiday. I hope you can salvage the friendship.

crockofshite · 21/08/2024 18:33

This reply has been deleted

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x2boys · 21/08/2024 18:35

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You are talking about a disabled six year old
Very apt user name BTW.

TheFormidableMrsC · 21/08/2024 18:36

This is hideous but it sounds like PDA. The comment that "you can't say no to her" is a clue to this. However if there is no diagnosis and they're not aware of it, not a lot you can do. I'm a SN parent and I have pointed this out to other parents on occasion though!

I think in this instance, you have to place your boundaries, make sure it's ok for your kids to have boundaries and go off and do your own thing as much as you can. It sounds so very stressful, I'm sorry 😔

Otherstories2002 · 21/08/2024 18:36

x2boys · 21/08/2024 18:35

You are talking about a disabled six year old
Very apt user name BTW.

It’s a troll. Report and move on.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 21/08/2024 18:37

x2boys · 21/08/2024 18:19

In her first post she' said her son ia autistic .so knows about autism
But that's the thing what works for one child with autism doesn't for another.

I think she probably that she has some experience with ND behaviour and needs, so she would be more prepared for some less usual experiences than many other people would be .

Come on though. Not many ND children are permanently excluded at the age of six for violence. That’s not within virtually anyone’s expectations.

GroundSand32 · 21/08/2024 18:38

Whatafustercluck · 21/08/2024 18:32

This is so hard to comment on because I see considerable similarities with my own dd (7yo) when she's totally dysregulated. And it's usually much, much worse on holiday. Thankfully, her worst behaviour is directed at dh and I, though. Once she reaches this level of dysregulation, over a protracted period of time without the opportunity to reduce her anxiety, the only way to get her, and us, through it, is to remove all demands in the short term, put up with the disapproving looks from others about our lack of boundaries/ consequences/ behaviour management and just help her regulate first and foremost. The rules come back into play once she is settled. We do have boundaries, she knows right and wrong, and is an absolute delight mostly, well mannered, caring, funny etc. But on her worst days, you'd say she was just doing things to get her own way and we were enabling her behaviour by allowing it to go unchecked. I feel an overwhelming sense of empathy with the parents.

The only thing that gives me pause is that op has said there's a general lack of routine, which I'd agree won't be helping the situation, and may indeed be a big cause of it. They desperately need advice and support, because it sounds like their dd has spiralled completely and they're now struggling to take back the reins.

However. This is your holiday too and, for whatever reason, you were not aware of how badly her behaviour would impact on you and your family. You're close enough friends to holiday together, so I'd expect you to be close enough to explain honestly how you feel: desperately sorry and understanding of their situation, but this isn't what you were expecting and you need some space to enjoy your holiday. As others have said, you may find that they're grateful to you for removing an additional pressure they don't need. As a friend, I'd be enquiring as to what kind of support they have sought, are receiving and if there's anything you can do to help.

If you listen to anything OP, this is the one in my view

OpizpuHeuvHiyo · 21/08/2024 18:38

The child's behaviour was not caused by terrible parenting and will not suddenly be cured by your friend suddenly adopting a new strict parenting style. They will have tried "normal" parenting and found it made things worse.

What was unreasonable was them agreeing to this holiday with you without discussing the problems and how it will impact you. They have probably lost sight of what "reasonable" looks like.

Your DH's suggestion of having nothing to do with them until they become a fully functional family is horrible. However to save your friendship you probably need to get separate accommodation for the rest of the holiday if at all possible, and don't go on holiday with them again without a careful conversation about how to manage everyone's needs.

Fundays12 · 21/08/2024 18:44

Whatafustercluck · 21/08/2024 18:32

This is so hard to comment on because I see considerable similarities with my own dd (7yo) when she's totally dysregulated. And it's usually much, much worse on holiday. Thankfully, her worst behaviour is directed at dh and I, though. Once she reaches this level of dysregulation, over a protracted period of time without the opportunity to reduce her anxiety, the only way to get her, and us, through it, is to remove all demands in the short term, put up with the disapproving looks from others about our lack of boundaries/ consequences/ behaviour management and just help her regulate first and foremost. The rules come back into play once she is settled. We do have boundaries, she knows right and wrong, and is an absolute delight mostly, well mannered, caring, funny etc. But on her worst days, you'd say she was just doing things to get her own way and we were enabling her behaviour by allowing it to go unchecked. I feel an overwhelming sense of empathy with the parents.

The only thing that gives me pause is that op has said there's a general lack of routine, which I'd agree won't be helping the situation, and may indeed be a big cause of it. They desperately need advice and support, because it sounds like their dd has spiralled completely and they're now struggling to take back the reins.

However. This is your holiday too and, for whatever reason, you were not aware of how badly her behaviour would impact on you and your family. You're close enough friends to holiday together, so I'd expect you to be close enough to explain honestly how you feel: desperately sorry and understanding of their situation, but this isn't what you were expecting and you need some space to enjoy your holiday. As others have said, you may find that they're grateful to you for removing an additional pressure they don't need. As a friend, I'd be enquiring as to what kind of support they have sought, are receiving and if there's anything you can do to help.

Very well written

WhereDoWeGoFromHereBill · 21/08/2024 18:45

x2boys · 21/08/2024 18:09

I think you will find it can be .

Nope. It is how undisciplined children work.

BurnerName1 · 21/08/2024 18:46

x2boys · 21/08/2024 18:31

Lovely let's just beat the autism out of her that will work .

To be honest it's what would have happened in the past. It would have harmed the autistic child especially in the short term but it would have protected those around them AND taught them about where the red lines are.

The problem is people understandably don't want to beat children but they frequently don't seem to have any alternative behaviour management strategies either. Society is just expected to put up with little Jimmy or Jenny growing from a violent child into a violent adult. We'll then be lectured on how outrageous and rejecting society is. What is the solution? Institutionalise these children so they can have specialist support?

Newname71 · 21/08/2024 18:46

I have a 17 year old DS who was an absolute nightmare at that age. ADHD, obsessive compulsive behaviour and huuuge violent meltdowns. I’ve been punched, slapped, kicked, had my hair pulled and been spat on. It was a very bleak time in my life. I absolutely would never have inflicted that on any other family especially on what’s supposed to be a relaxing holiday!!
He’s an absolute darling now (although still a bit of a handful at times!)

suburburban · 21/08/2024 18:48

Afraid I have to agree Burner

Why is it ok for the dc to hurt people around them. I know I wouldn't put up with it