Holiday with another family and behaviour of their ASD child

[upoutandin87]

Currently on holiday with my family and another family (old friends) they have 2 older children same age as my kids and they also now have a 6 yr old. We have holidayed with them before but not since the youngest was born. Youngest is ND (autism and suspected ADHD). My son is 15 and autistic so I know about ASD but there DD seems out of control and we can't cope with it. She swears spits hits and throws furniture if she doesn't get her own way - there is no routine and she basically gets what she wants - she slapped my DD earlier today and called her a f b because she didn't want to go in the pool with her - my friends answer to this was you cannot say no to her - if you don't do what she wants she kicks off so we have to let her do what she wants. My friends DH and 2 older kids can't cope with her so they go to the beach and take my 15 yr old with them - I prefer being by the pool so I stay with them and my DD 17. We honestly don't know what to do as our holiday is being ruined by a 7 yr old. She threw my bag in the pool yesterday and I was fuming. We are trying to do stuff without them but they seem to be constantly appearing - they never raise their voice at their DD or tell her to stop as negative language makes her worse. Last night their 15 yr old told my son that she has been permanently excluded from her primary school and she currently has no school place from September - I was aware she has had several exclusions for violence but only short term exclusions but her parents have not mentioned to us about the exclusion. My DH wants us to cut all ties with them until they start parenting their child properly. We are only 3 days in to a 10 day holiday and are tempted to fly home to get away from them. I feel so bad as I am an SEN parent myself but they won't take any advice from us about maybe having a routine and setting boundaries. I so feel for them as they are completely broken by her behaviour but I don't actually know what I can do to help.

Declaring that some people can just suck it up because they are less important is not on.

PP didn't say that OP was less important@BettyBardMacDonald.

Good lord you lot are all heart aren’t you 😁

I’m not suggesting that the OP upends her holiday to take over care for this child. I’ve said it about 10 different ways and every time it’s implied that the I am instructing her to spend the next week imprisoned in a darkened hotel room having mini bottles of shampoo thrown at her by the six year old hostage taker. I’m suggesting that she could put her Martina Cole down for half a hour and make sure her mate of 20 years is ok and if she might like a sandwich or a bottle of wine and a straw.

People make dodgy decisions with unintended consequences. It’s a holiday, it’s not ruined and it’s not the end of the world. This is the kind of refreshing perspective you get when life throws you something that wasn’t in the plan and you have no choice but to catch it and crack on because you love it. Even though it’s often horrible to you and ruins your travel plans.

I’m afraid that the idea that families with disabled children can’t go on holiday because they should spend all their money on some nebulous therapies to fix their problems has finished me off. Tell me more, wise poster, about who I can pay so I don’t have to be the boss of this any more 😂

Enjoy the rest of your holiday, OP. Nothing you have said indicates that you will be taking any of the more unhinged advice that’s been offered. Reading what posters on this thread who know demand avoidance have written will give you a bit of a window into what might have led to this situation and what your friend’s life is like. Most of all, be thankful that you’ll be going home after a nice break to a peaceful life with your family.

You don’t get to decide whether this constitutes a ruined holiday for them or not. For a lot of people this level of disruption and stress absolutely would.

They know what their kids behaviour can be like. Even if they thought she wouldn’t behave like this on holiday, they knew it was distinct possibility and they should have informed OP before she and her husband used up their annual leave, spent their money and committed themselves and their kids.

She sure as hell did. Please review the post I quoted verbatim.

Well said, @InterIgnis

I’m just going to come right out and say it. Regardless of how the situation came about, the OP’s friend and her family being in crisis is way more important than the OP having the mythical perfect holiday

No. OP wasn't warned. No-one else gets to decide that someone's holiday should be superceded by their family parenting issues, that is the height of entitlement.

Regardless of how the situation came about, the OP’s friend and her family being in crisis is way more important than the OP having the mythical perfect holiday.

Your self entitlement and arrogance is astounding. Who do you think you are to decide that the op and her family should put their holiday on the back foot and rally around this friend??
Does their holiday not matter to them? What mind blowing arrogance you have to think their situation trumps everything else. If someone slaps you will you get up and be all smiley and forgiving. This child is ruining it for everyone and the family knew full well what they were doing by not warning the OP.

@InterIgnis well said.

I’m suggesting that she could put her Martina Cole down for half a hour and make sure her mate of 20 years is ok and if she might like a sandwich or a bottle of wine and a straw

To be fair, she has done that. She updated that she suggested taking her friend out for a drink and a chat to support her and allow her space to express her feelings. It sounds like OP really does want to support her friend but she also wants to make the most of the holiday for her family too. I dont think that is in any way wrong or unfair.

Aside from giving her space for a supportive chat I really dont know what else people are expecting from the OP. OP is not a therapist and it sounds like the friend isnt even that keen on talking about it if they've been chatting for ages and she never once mentioned her daughter's behaviour before.

No, she said the holiday was less important.

Insensitive and uncompassionate post.
The family of the special needs child desperately need a holiday.
Your comments are astoundingly Insensitive

Struggling a bit to see how someone could be a good enough mate to holiday together for 20 years, and have some experience of autism, but still have zero insight. However, people are funny. Including in assuming that disabled people and their families should be seen and not heard unless they can be 'normal', and certainly not have the poor grace to participate in every day social activities in case they upset the non-disabled who are entitled to never have the messy business of disability impinge on their lives.

You’re being entirely disingenuous.

No one was making a comparison between their relative value as human beings. Their desire for a holiday they actually enjoy is not less important than OP’s friend’s desire to have OP and her family there regardless of the impact their child would have. It isn’t at all unreasonable for OP and her husband to be throughly pissed off at their friends. No matter what they’re going through, they were wrong to let OP and her husband spend their annual leave and money on this holiday without given them important information about their daughter’s behaviour. It was wrong of them to expect their friend’s family to just suck it up as a matter of course because they have to (of course they have to! She’s their child!).

Expecting not the be slapped, sworn at and have your property damaged is not ‘expecting the perfect holiday’ either.

Including in assuming that disabled people and their families should be seen and not heard unless they can be 'normal'

That is unfair. There's a big difference between what you're describing, and going away together as two families without pre-warning and giving the other family an option not to go.
There's a difference between expecting understanding and inclusion (rightfully), and expecting others to sacrifice themselves for you and put their own family's needs last.

Expecting them to be seen and not heard? Or expecting fair warning that you’re likely to be slapped, sworn at, lumbered with childcare and have your property destroyed BEFORE you commit your time and money to a holiday with them?

And yes, people are most definitely entitled to want to avoid any and all of the above. Correct.

Brilliant post expertly said

Exactly And yet OPs friend wants to bring the kid along. Because the child doesnt like being away from her mum and i bet the dad is quite happy with that
So what happens if the childs mum gets ill and has to go into hospital. Will NHS staff have to set up a bed in her mums room? Take her down to the operating theatre next to her mum.
The parents need to be preparing for possibilities like this. A good start would be the dad actually doing some childcare so OP and her friend can go for their planned drink.
And i agree about the Martina Cole comment. Its also bloody patronizing That poster actually thinks OP has had time to read in peace? After what shes being put through on holiday?!

No one was making a comparison between their relative value as human beings.

Yes, this was exactly my point to you@InterIgnis, pp hadn't made that comparison.

It did sound like you were suggesting otherwise when you said -
Declaring that some people can just suck it up because they are less important is not on.

Anyway, let's move on.
I do agree a discussion before the holiday was needed, but I feel huge sympathy for the family dealing with this everyday. It is so difficult.

The parents need to be preparing for possibilities like this. A good start would be the dad actually doing some childcare so OP and her friend can go for their planned drink.

@JenniferBooth Sure, but it's probably not the best time for mum to go out when the child is not coping well and they are in firefighting mode. Another time, when the family are settled back at home, might be better - alrhough I understand they live some distance from OP so could be difficult to arrange.

For the moment, pp's suggestion of a chat on the balcony while the child is watching a film sounds good if it's possible. Or mum nipping out while she's asleep maybe.

I wasn’t the poster you replied to with that, or at least not the one you quoted.

Within the context of the actual discussion it was very obvious that ‘they are less important’ is referring to their holiday experience being called less important, not them as people.

Having the attitude, as the original poster that promoted this, did, that everyone around this family is unreasonable if they (quite reasonably) have a problem with their kids behaviour and the impact of it of those around her, is only going to alienate people. Yes, their lives are clearly horrendously difficult, but it doesn’t give them to right to dump on OP and her family, let alone without so much as word of warning.

Yes, you're right @InterIgnis, my apologies. My original point was to @BettyBardMacDonald.

Within the context of the actual discussion it was very obvious that ‘they are less important’ is referring to their holiday experience being called less important, not them as people.

Yes, that was the point I was trying to make to@BettyBardMacDonald.
She thought a pp called the OP less important than her friend. I said she didn't and it was the perfect holiday that was being referred to as less important.

Which is what Betty seemed to mean - she wasn’t saying that the original poster of that comment was saying OP was less important as a person, she was saying that OP and her family’s desire for a nice holiday (not even a perfect one! Just one that isn’t miserable) isn’t less important and for that poster to be so dismissive of the impact this kid’s behaviour is having on them is frankly wild. OP and her family don’t have to accept a shit holiday because ‘it’s worse for the parents’, as if they’re obliged to suck it up and not be very reasonably pissed off with their friends for not being honest with them before they booked leave and spent their money.

@InterIgnis I disagree about what pp seemed to mean.
Can we leave it there please, and just agree to disagree? This is a waste of everyone's time really.

I'm the pp and I meant their holiday. @InterIgnis is correct.

When on my phone I don't always elaborate in long sentences, assuming that people get the idea. Apparently not.

For the record, OP's family's enjoyment of their family holiday is just as important and precious as is anyone else's. They are not obliged to sacrifice themselves to "be kind."

Okay, my apologies then.