Holiday with another family and behaviour of their ASD child

[upoutandin87]

Currently on holiday with my family and another family (old friends) they have 2 older children same age as my kids and they also now have a 6 yr old. We have holidayed with them before but not since the youngest was born. Youngest is ND (autism and suspected ADHD). My son is 15 and autistic so I know about ASD but there DD seems out of control and we can't cope with it. She swears spits hits and throws furniture if she doesn't get her own way - there is no routine and she basically gets what she wants - she slapped my DD earlier today and called her a f b because she didn't want to go in the pool with her - my friends answer to this was you cannot say no to her - if you don't do what she wants she kicks off so we have to let her do what she wants. My friends DH and 2 older kids can't cope with her so they go to the beach and take my 15 yr old with them - I prefer being by the pool so I stay with them and my DD 17. We honestly don't know what to do as our holiday is being ruined by a 7 yr old. She threw my bag in the pool yesterday and I was fuming. We are trying to do stuff without them but they seem to be constantly appearing - they never raise their voice at their DD or tell her to stop as negative language makes her worse. Last night their 15 yr old told my son that she has been permanently excluded from her primary school and she currently has no school place from September - I was aware she has had several exclusions for violence but only short term exclusions but her parents have not mentioned to us about the exclusion. My DH wants us to cut all ties with them until they start parenting their child properly. We are only 3 days in to a 10 day holiday and are tempted to fly home to get away from them. I feel so bad as I am an SEN parent myself but they won't take any advice from us about maybe having a routine and setting boundaries. I so feel for them as they are completely broken by her behaviour but I don't actually know what I can do to help.

I’d explain that you don’t want to cause additional pressure for your DC and this girl is obviously not coping with the transition to holiday. They need to access help and advice on autism strategies and or PDA. I’d get my children out of there pronto no way would I pay to be in this environment.

SEND board and SN boards. Not sure if there is a specific PDA thread but demand avoidant features come up a lot.

Think it is important that ignorance and prejudice are challenged on these threads - there is so much blaming of parents of disabled children by people who sadly appear to need to boost themselves by feeling superior to others, when in reality they have little insight, and have never been tested in the same set of circumstances as a parent. And some really repellent attitudes towards disabled children are on display - usually because people seem not to be able to grasp the implications of cognitive differences and developmental delays.

We have a young family member who has PDD in the context of a genetic syndrome. It is incredibly hard for his parents and sibling. It impacts every aspect of their lives. He is regularly excluded from school but has been denied funding for a special school. Even most special schools will not take him as he has normal intelligence despite his extremely challenging behaviour.

The description that a PP put of Timmy is a lot like his behaviour. Being asked to do or to stop doing something triggers an almighty meltdown which, as he gets older, is actually dangerous. His parents are covered in scratches bruises and bit marks. He has smashed up their house pretty comprehensively too eg games console controller through the TV screen, holes in the walls.

I would love to be able to babysit to give his parents a break but honestly I don't know if I could manage it. I have offered to try and to follow their strategies but his parents feel he really can't be left with anyone else. I usually end up just taking his sibling instead which is nice for them but doesn't help his parents.

Trying to include him in family events is challenging. Going out for a meal or staying in a hotel is close to impossible. A picnic outside or camping is more likely to be successful. Even inviting to our house carries a risk of my kids stuff (or actually my kids) getting smashed up.

They don't try to get him to sit at the table, eat any food he doesn't want (resulting in all beige diet), wear appropriate clothes or say please and thank you and this is understood as rudeness by older relatives I'm afraid. He spends a lot of time gaming and watching YouTube videos on topics he is obsessed about on a loop and being asked to do anything different to that is a problem. The description of 'Timmy' throwing something in the pool the next visit rings a bell. Our relative will often seem to do stuff that js provocative even when appearing calm and it does look deliberate. I can try to understand that but my kids really don't.

I do understand that the best way to manage him is to reduce demands but what is needed is so different to 'normal life' that I do wonder how will he ever manage to function when he grows up because the world is full of demands. I just hope he can learn strategies to cope in the end.

If anyone who lives with this can suggest what they would find helpful for a family member to do I'd be interested as I hate to see them suffer but am stumped as to how to help. They don't want to talk about it. I think they feel disloyal to complain about their son. They often decline invites or offers that I make and don't suggest what would be more helpful. They have said it's such a struggle day to day that offers of visits or days out are just more stress but it results in their lives being very constrained. They do accept my taking his sibling out but then I feel bad for leaving out the SEN kid but they say he prefers to stay home anyway.

I've got a 6 year old sen boy and he would be difficult on holiday with friends so I wouldn't put him or others in that situation. Hopefully your friends won't after this debacle

@ThePure you sound like a kind person. I think supporting the sibling is the most useful thing to do, as you are.

You can try to meet the other child where they are so to speak. Watch a bit of YouTube with them. Play a bit of Minecraft/Roblox/whatever. Side by side with something to talk about. Low key. DuoLingo. Whatever floats their boat.

Maybe suggest his mum/dad look into MindJam.

If you are good with paperwork you could offer to assist them with the EHCP/tribunal process (I assume by 'denied funding' you mean a refusal to issue an EHCP or a refusal to name a suitable school?) Those decisions can be challenged but the paperwork is epic. There are a lot of other options out there for education but they don't advertise/aren't well known.

@ThePure

My family member is exactly like you describe and luckily he has funding for a significant chunk of respite - he actually spends his days in respite or a specialist school. This was because his parents got to the point they couldn’t cope, as the younger siblings were at risk and getting injured. Social services aren’t daft and know it’s cheaper to provide respite than a care placement.

Siblings often miss out because their brother/sister can't cope with days out etc
My son has severe autism and learning disabilities, when we gonout he can only manage an hour or two and his behaviour can be extremely challenging
I wouldn't expect anyone to offer to take him out and finally after 14 years we are getting some respite which gives us a break
I think it's nice if you to support the non disabled sibling so they don't miss out too much.

I’ve found this thread really interesting. We have friends with a child somewhat similar to this. There were very few problems until he started school - until then we used to holiday with them but they then said that wouldn’t be possible any more (which everyone here seems to agree is what the OP’s friends should have done). We do still meet up a couple of times a year and my DC don’t like it to be honest, but it’s important to me and DH that our friends can still have ‘normal’ (ish) family days out with friends, so we do the best we can.

OP rather than going to the bar with your friend and her DD, is there not a balcony or patio where the two of you can have a drink while DD is safely in the room watching a film or something?

Thanks so much for the replies to my post
Sounds like carrying on with taking non disabled sibling out is a good contribution
Roblox is one of the major obsessions. Maybe I do need to try to understand it a bit as I have barely any idea what that even is.

Roblox is a platform where games makers (amateur and professional) can upload their work. You can customise your little person and then do obstacle courses, hide and seek, collect and care for pets, dress up and strut down a runway, go down water slides and challenges etc (this is what my daughter is into, anyway).

You can play at the same time as friends and collect points or use actual money to buy 'Robux' to buy stuff with.

You can also listen to a billion tedious YouTube videos where influencers talk you through their Roblox playing.

See also: Minecraft (which is more creative but also more violent).

The YouTube part I find very tedious, but that's YouTube for you.

Long story short: if you want to bond with a kid into this stuff you need to attempt an interest (also a good way in to open conversations about whether people are who they say they are online, etc).

Then they could/should have outlined to the OP clearly and succintly what the holiday would/could entail so the OP and her family could make (oh whats it called) oh yes.............an informed decision.

There was a boy in my junior school class in 1982 who would have meltdowns I remember one incident when the teacher got him out of the classroom, I dont remember how she did it The thing that stuck in my mind was her pushing her desk up against the door so he couldnt get back in.

Another father leaving it all to the nearest vagina owner whether the latter is related to the child or not

yes quite clearly no one gives a fuck about him. Big chance that if his parents need his help in thirty years time he will tell them to get to fuck

Fantastic post, perfectly described. It is truly scary how little or no insight some people have no idea of the enormity and challenges of looking after children/adults with special needs. It would have been nice if OP's friend was able to offer some support

I’ve been mulling this over today as I took my son to ruin everyone else’s day out by being autistic at a local theme park 😁

I’m just going to come right out and say it. Regardless of how the situation came about, the OP’s friend and her family being in crisis is way more important than the OP having the mythical perfect holiday.

I cannot conceive of a situation whereby I had a close friend who was in an incredibly difficult situation and I told her to sling her hook because she was ruining it for everyone else. It’s really childish. Perfect holidays are not a thing. If it wasn’t this it would be something else because that’s life.

All these pages of angry handwringing and boundary setting and all that’s really needed to set things back on track is a bit of basic empathy and perspective.

The OP needs to give her mate a hug and acknowledge that this is a difficult situation and that it must be really hard for her. She could maybe push the boat out and ask if there is any way her friend thinks that they could salvage the situation so they could all enjoy the holiday. The teenager who was hit needs a very simple explanation as to why a small autistic child might lash out when overstimulated and I doubt she’ll have any lasting trauma.

Holiday over, OP goes home knowing she hasn’t made a shitty situation worse by behaving like a giant spoilt baby and that she and her family got to have time together even if it wasn’t exactly what she’d hoped. OP’s friend and family go home armed with the realisation that things need to change because their daughter is holding them all hostage, and comforted by the fact that their friend acknowledged how hard it must be and isn’t furious with her about it.

Some of the posters here have blown my mind with their lack of even basic empathy. It’s a bit scary.

If the parents of the child didnt get the message that things need to change when the child was suspended from school what makes you think this holiday is going to do it.
And yet AGAIN its the nearest female who has to suck it up while the childs OWN FATHER fucks off to the beach every day.

You’re right. Maybe they won’t. OP isn’t going to holiday with them again so it’s not her problem. But it would be a kindness if the friend didn’t go home to the endless task of caring for the child also feeling like she’d ruined a holiday and her mates all hated her.

As for the husband… 100%. I wrote up thread that I’d lay good money he pushed for the trip and she didn’t want to do it. I’d also lay good money he has strong opinions about his daughter’s behaviour and does absolutely nothing to change anything. The 80% figure has been debunked I think but this is the reason most autistic kids have single parents

"the OP’s friend and her family being in crisis is way more important than the OP having the mythical perfect holiday."

I have to disagree with this. It's not a day out to the nearby beach, it's a long holiday that is using up precious money and annual leave.

It was really unfair of the friend to not spell out the exact situation and let the OP know what she was in for. Also the fact that the child's father feels free to go off and do his own thing, instead of caring for his child with complex needs, speaks volumes. Let him, rather than OP, have his holiday curtailed. Let him give his wife a break.

Declaring that some people can just suck it up because they are less important is not on. Especially when they have been rather hoodwinked into a situation.

If friend had said "Look, I am desperate and really need to lean on you, could you please help me out in what is likely to be a sucky situation for all of us...?" that would be one thing. But that is not what occurred.

But the money spent on the holiday would have been better spent on support for this child. This is just a fact. OP isn't a specialist, and was not warned, and has her own children, the idea she was going to be some magical solution for a week or so was deluded. What benefit would it be the child to have support for a week, then that was taken away?

They've pissed away thousands that could have gone into trying to make life better for those children by getting specialist help and support - for the high needs child but also her older brother, who has a lock on his door and wants to leave home. They're not behaving in a grown up, responsible way at all.

Also, it's not the OP's job to provide support, and especially not when this has been foisted on her without her consent or prior knowledge. Treating her (and the rest of her family) like this is a shitty, shitty thing to do.

Some of the posters here have blown my mind with their lack of even basic empathy

Your post is a great example.

Fuck that. Op and her family aren’t obliged to sacrifice their own enjoyment of their holiday in the name of having ‘empathy’ for their friends. You don’t get to decide what other people have to accept.

Their friends should have given OP enough respect to allow her to make an informed choice about going on holiday, not just expected her to suck up because life is hard for them and misery wants company.

If you want to talk about school, what needs to change is the parlous state of SEND provision.

Yes, of course families with disabled children should not take holidays. How frivolous and irresponsible of them to want a life with occasional pleasures like other people.