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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Holiday with another family and behaviour of their ASD child

436 replies

upoutandin87 · 21/08/2024 15:54

Currently on holiday with my family and another family (old friends) they have 2 older children same age as my kids and they also now have a 6 yr old. We have holidayed with them before but not since the youngest was born. Youngest is ND (autism and suspected ADHD). My son is 15 and autistic so I know about ASD but there DD seems out of control and we can't cope with it. She swears spits hits and throws furniture if she doesn't get her own way - there is no routine and she basically gets what she wants - she slapped my DD earlier today and called her a f b because she didn't want to go in the pool with her - my friends answer to this was you cannot say no to her - if you don't do what she wants she kicks off so we have to let her do what she wants. My friends DH and 2 older kids can't cope with her so they go to the beach and take my 15 yr old with them - I prefer being by the pool so I stay with them and my DD 17. We honestly don't know what to do as our holiday is being ruined by a 7 yr old. She threw my bag in the pool yesterday and I was fuming. We are trying to do stuff without them but they seem to be constantly appearing - they never raise their voice at their DD or tell her to stop as negative language makes her worse. Last night their 15 yr old told my son that she has been permanently excluded from her primary school and she currently has no school place from September - I was aware she has had several exclusions for violence but only short term exclusions but her parents have not mentioned to us about the exclusion. My DH wants us to cut all ties with them until they start parenting their child properly. We are only 3 days in to a 10 day holiday and are tempted to fly home to get away from them. I feel so bad as I am an SEN parent myself but they won't take any advice from us about maybe having a routine and setting boundaries. I so feel for them as they are completely broken by her behaviour but I don't actually know what I can do to help.

OP posts:
altmember · 21/08/2024 23:53

All kids need consistently applied boundaries, discipline and to some extent, routines. I've always been led to believe that this is especially crucial with ASD kids? Any child that's got used to always getting their own way is going to have a tantrum when told something different, and they know this is the route to getting their way. If the parents can't/won't apply appropriate boundaries then they're making a rod for their own back.

I've got a close friend who's son is diagnosed ASD. He wasn't that challenging as a younger child, but friend was very casual with applying boundaries, because most of the time it was easier to just let things slide. She'd always say she was 'picking her battles' with him (which I'd translate to lazy parenting). But every time she backed down it gave him more ammunition and confidence for the next argument. Now as a teenager he's absolutely unstoppable, just does whatever he wants, and ignores any instruction to do/not do something.

By contrast my own kids, now teenage, know that when I say 'no' that's the the final answer. Sometimes (fairly often), there's foot stomping, face pulling, and occasionally a protracted discussion about my reasoning. But they all know and respect the boundaries.

You can't help here, nothing you do can improve your friend's child's behaviour. Don't go home early, but avoid the child at all costs, and make it clear to the parents exactly why. If they start bleating again about not refusing her because she'll kick off, point out that their attitude reflects their daughter's (or is it hers reflecting theirs??).

Is there some parenting rule book somewhere that states it's essential to avoid letting a child have a tantrum at all costs? Because I must've missed that one.

Temporaryname158 · 21/08/2024 23:55

I would explain to your friend that she hadn’t made you aware of her child’s difficulties and it has come as a surprise to you.

that you had come on holiday to spend time as a family and that due to DD behaviour you aren’t spending time together (as your husband and son are avoiding her). Explain that here on in you will be joining your family so you can enjoy precious time together.

of she challenges you explain that for you, her throwing your bag in the pool (would she have paid for a new phone/kindle etc?) and calling your daughter a fucking bitch is unacceptable.

then spend the holiday with your family. It will be awkward round the pool etc but I presume you’ve paid a lot of money for this and it isn’t fair that her daughters needs come above everyone else on this holiday including your children

Irisginger · 21/08/2024 23:57

Maria1979 · 21/08/2024 21:30

You can set boundaries without shouting and screaming though. I certainly can with mine. It's all about being firm and keeping one's calm. That's why parents need to relay each other with an ND child because you always need to keep your calm and It's hard when someone is screaming insults at you, shouting, spitting, hitting themselves. Some of the most adored and efficient teachers my DC have had were very strict and tolerated no bs. They never had to raise their voices because the children respected them and knew there would be consequences if they did not behave.

OP's friends need to set boundaries but noone was talking about shouting. Rather calmly say "you stop hitting/shouting/whatever or I will take you to our room" then execute. Every single time.

Show quote history

This is not what a specialist psychologist would recommend.

Puffalicious · 22/08/2024 00:38

Anankasticfantastic · 21/08/2024 23:19

Taking a seat next to you and joining in with sobbing 😥

Show quote history

Snap. 😔 Is there a place for us all to chat? I never see much on the ASN/ SEN boards.

Soccergearmissingagain · 22/08/2024 02:15

altmember · 21/08/2024 23:53

All kids need consistently applied boundaries, discipline and to some extent, routines. I've always been led to believe that this is especially crucial with ASD kids? Any child that's got used to always getting their own way is going to have a tantrum when told something different, and they know this is the route to getting their way. If the parents can't/won't apply appropriate boundaries then they're making a rod for their own back.

I've got a close friend who's son is diagnosed ASD. He wasn't that challenging as a younger child, but friend was very casual with applying boundaries, because most of the time it was easier to just let things slide. She'd always say she was 'picking her battles' with him (which I'd translate to lazy parenting). But every time she backed down it gave him more ammunition and confidence for the next argument. Now as a teenager he's absolutely unstoppable, just does whatever he wants, and ignores any instruction to do/not do something.

By contrast my own kids, now teenage, know that when I say 'no' that's the the final answer. Sometimes (fairly often), there's foot stomping, face pulling, and occasionally a protracted discussion about my reasoning. But they all know and respect the boundaries.

You can't help here, nothing you do can improve your friend's child's behaviour. Don't go home early, but avoid the child at all costs, and make it clear to the parents exactly why. If they start bleating again about not refusing her because she'll kick off, point out that their attitude reflects their daughter's (or is it hers reflecting theirs??).

Is there some parenting rule book somewhere that states it's essential to avoid letting a child have a tantrum at all costs? Because I must've missed that one.

All kids need consistently applied boundaries, discipline and to some extent, routines. I've always been led to believe that this is especially crucial with ASD kids?

@Altmember
Many children with ASD do need routines, but it's different with PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidence, thought possibly to be a subtype of autism).

I don't know this child's diagnosis but with PDA even routine and structure can be seen as demands, particularly if they are imposed upon the child. Individuals with PDA often do better with flexibility and novelty.

It sounds like your children are NT?
Really and truly, it's easy to judge and think that it's the parenting that makes the difference.
Unless the parenting is awful, it's not.

I have both NT children and an autistic child with some PDA tendencies. It really is a whole other ball game. It is far, far more challenging to parent my ND child and as others have said you do have to throw the rule book out the window. The parenting techniques used for NT children often simply do not work at all.

I think the parents here have made a bad mistake in involving others in their holiday, and this situation isn't at all fair on OP's family.
However, please don't underestimate how difficult life is for this family and don't judge them without ever understanding their situation.

Tinymrscollings · 22/08/2024 02:40

@altmember

All kids need consistently applied boundaries, discipline and to some extent, routines. I've always been led to believe that this is especially crucial with ASD kids? Any child that's got used to always getting their own way is going to have a tantrum when told something different, and they know this is the route to getting their way. If the parents can't/won't apply appropriate boundaries then they're making a rod for their own back.

You’re right, but the way in which those boundaries are enforced when a child is demand avoidant/PDA are entirely different. People with PDA cannot tolerate any loss of autonomy or the sense that another person (parent, teacher usually) is ‘in charge of them’. Not cause they’re spoiled (although they certainly can be) or poorly parented. Demand causes overwhelming anxiety and leads to the kind of behaviours the OP is seeing.

Most kids:
Parent: Timmy, If you throw that in the pool I will take you back to the room for the rest of the afternoon
Timmy: throws bag in the pool
Parent: ok, let’s go.
Timmy: cries in the room for 5 minutes, says sorry, learns lesson, remembers next time

PDA:
Parent: Timmy, If you throw that in the pool I will take you back to the room for the rest of the afternoon
Timmy: throws bag in the pool
Parent: ok, let’s go.
Timmy: has to be dragged to the room, scrapes his elbow and accuses parent of hurting him on purpose. He screams, swears, hits, bites for the ensuing 6 hours. He’s completely overwhelmed and tries to overturn a buffet at dinner so has to be removed, again by force. One parent has to sit in the room with him whilst he spits at them and laughs. They don’t get dinner. Timmy is far beyond the reach of reason and so disregulated that he kicks a wall repeatedly for 8 hours and keeps his whole family up. The next day they go to the pool and he immediately finds a bag, makes full eye contact with the parent and throws it in because you’re not the boss, he’s the boss

OR:
Parent: Timmy, what does it say on the Swimming Pool Info Sheet (1) about other people’s things?
Timmy: pauses, goes to throw bag in pool
Parent: Timmy shall we look at the information sheet together?
Timmy: comes to look at information sheet
Parent: What will happen if we don’t follow the swimming pool information sheet?
Timmy: We have to leave because the hotel manager doesn’t let people throw things in the pool
Parent: Yes, and we’re having a great time so if you’re feeling in a throwing mood we could throw these (2) to each other?

(1) If it’s written down and you are simply communicating the standards expected at the pool rather than giving an instruction, Timmy is receiving information via you and will absorb the rules. Before coming on holiday you have thought out the swimming pool rules that you have to call an info sheet, typed them, printed several copies and laminated one for the swimming bag. You have taken Timmy through the sheet each and every time you go to swim and confirmed that he has understood them to avoid arguing that he didn’t know/hear/understand. Timmy has been told that if we don’t abide by the rules then we’ll have to leave the pool because the hotel manager won’t allow it. The hotel manager is a convenient made up third party that you can use to externalise the demand so it isn’t coming from you to Timmy and he doesn’t feel threatened. You have several other information sheets for other potential flash points, but forgot to do a couple and will have to wing it and hope for the best. Sometimes it will work. Sometimes he will hit his brother or throw a glass at a wall

(2) soft skim toys which you researched extensively (nothing that will hurt anyone, nothing frustrating, nothing that might break a window etc) purchased a week ago and hid in the swimming bag just in case

5 minutes later Timmy takes a child’s inflatable flamingo and we go again, always avoiding directly instructing but constantly setting and enforcing boundaries and reminding Timmy of natural consequences rather than threatening punishment. It is exhausting and it never ends.

That’s not an exaggeration. This is life when you enforce boundaries with PDA. This was long, but the vast majority of people have no idea what demand avoidance is and what ‘just enforce some boundaries’ looks like.

edit; terrible formatting

itsgettingweird · 22/08/2024 04:36

Jane my post was nothing like judgement. I didn't even talk about the parents. I was talking in general about all angles of raising a kids with complex send and how difficult it was because there were so many outcomes.

I've also been one of the few on here so say don't judge the young girl as it's not her fault she's been taken away when she hasn't been coping at home.

It says more about your level of judgement that read something that isn't even there.

localnotail · 22/08/2024 06:04

Fivebyfive2 · 21/08/2024 21:47

Probably because they were shut away from the world or in special schools and certainly not going on holidays and trips.

Also as a child growing up in the 80s you weren't frequenting parenting forums / whatever the equivalent was for parents with disabled kids (or their family and friends) to discuss their issues??

Show quote history

Yes, some hidden away, maybe. But also, because this kind of behaviour was not tolerated. I cant imagine someone's kid throwing my mum's bag into the pool! That would be scandalous.

Dont get me wrong, its great that we are much kinder and more inclusive as a society, but I think an aggressive 7 year old terrorising adults should either be taught how to behave or have therapy and medication to help her deal with the world. She has to live among other people, and there are boundaries. Her parents are doing her a massive disservice, imagine being excluded from primary school for aggression! What kind of life awaits her when she grows up?

localnotail · 22/08/2024 06:10

Tinymrscollings · 22/08/2024 02:40

@altmember

All kids need consistently applied boundaries, discipline and to some extent, routines. I've always been led to believe that this is especially crucial with ASD kids? Any child that's got used to always getting their own way is going to have a tantrum when told something different, and they know this is the route to getting their way. If the parents can't/won't apply appropriate boundaries then they're making a rod for their own back.

You’re right, but the way in which those boundaries are enforced when a child is demand avoidant/PDA are entirely different. People with PDA cannot tolerate any loss of autonomy or the sense that another person (parent, teacher usually) is ‘in charge of them’. Not cause they’re spoiled (although they certainly can be) or poorly parented. Demand causes overwhelming anxiety and leads to the kind of behaviours the OP is seeing.

Most kids:
Parent: Timmy, If you throw that in the pool I will take you back to the room for the rest of the afternoon
Timmy: throws bag in the pool
Parent: ok, let’s go.
Timmy: cries in the room for 5 minutes, says sorry, learns lesson, remembers next time

PDA:
Parent: Timmy, If you throw that in the pool I will take you back to the room for the rest of the afternoon
Timmy: throws bag in the pool
Parent: ok, let’s go.
Timmy: has to be dragged to the room, scrapes his elbow and accuses parent of hurting him on purpose. He screams, swears, hits, bites for the ensuing 6 hours. He’s completely overwhelmed and tries to overturn a buffet at dinner so has to be removed, again by force. One parent has to sit in the room with him whilst he spits at them and laughs. They don’t get dinner. Timmy is far beyond the reach of reason and so disregulated that he kicks a wall repeatedly for 8 hours and keeps his whole family up. The next day they go to the pool and he immediately finds a bag, makes full eye contact with the parent and throws it in because you’re not the boss, he’s the boss

OR:
Parent: Timmy, what does it say on the Swimming Pool Info Sheet (1) about other people’s things?
Timmy: pauses, goes to throw bag in pool
Parent: Timmy shall we look at the information sheet together?
Timmy: comes to look at information sheet
Parent: What will happen if we don’t follow the swimming pool information sheet?
Timmy: We have to leave because the hotel manager doesn’t let people throw things in the pool
Parent: Yes, and we’re having a great time so if you’re feeling in a throwing mood we could throw these (2) to each other?

(1) If it’s written down and you are simply communicating the standards expected at the pool rather than giving an instruction, Timmy is receiving information via you and will absorb the rules. Before coming on holiday you have thought out the swimming pool rules that you have to call an info sheet, typed them, printed several copies and laminated one for the swimming bag. You have taken Timmy through the sheet each and every time you go to swim and confirmed that he has understood them to avoid arguing that he didn’t know/hear/understand. Timmy has been told that if we don’t abide by the rules then we’ll have to leave the pool because the hotel manager won’t allow it. The hotel manager is a convenient made up third party that you can use to externalise the demand so it isn’t coming from you to Timmy and he doesn’t feel threatened. You have several other information sheets for other potential flash points, but forgot to do a couple and will have to wing it and hope for the best. Sometimes it will work. Sometimes he will hit his brother or throw a glass at a wall

(2) soft skim toys which you researched extensively (nothing that will hurt anyone, nothing frustrating, nothing that might break a window etc) purchased a week ago and hid in the swimming bag just in case

5 minutes later Timmy takes a child’s inflatable flamingo and we go again, always avoiding directly instructing but constantly setting and enforcing boundaries and reminding Timmy of natural consequences rather than threatening punishment. It is exhausting and it never ends.

That’s not an exaggeration. This is life when you enforce boundaries with PDA. This was long, but the vast majority of people have no idea what demand avoidance is and what ‘just enforce some boundaries’ looks like.

edit; terrible formatting

Edited

Thank you, this is amazing, and kind of sad. Parents of kids like Timmy have my full sympathy.

But the bottom like is, whichever way you do it, you have to do it. You cant allow your child to simply run wild, you need to teach them how to behave/ control them.

offyoujollywelltrot · 22/08/2024 06:14

Your husband is right. Until they start parenting their child, steer clear. I wouldn't blame you for going home, but if you can move into another villa so you can enjoy your time there in peace, do that.

(I'm ND with AuDHD before anyone says I don't understand, it does nobody any favours to leave the behaviour properly unaddressed).

Calliopespa · 22/08/2024 06:19

TheDisillusionedAnarchist · 21/08/2024 16:00

Old friends with two older kids who are ‘parented properly’ what is the likelihood they’ve suddenly become crap parents to number three?

That they’ve dropped all the routines and boundaries they had with the older ones and decided just to let her do what she likes? Versus that she has such high, complex needs that they’ve found all their ordinary discipline and boundaries and parenting don’t work and they haven’t yet figured out what does,

Sounds like they need support and kindness not abandoning and criticising by old friends.

Yes I’m understand your annoyance re the holiday op but this is very true. They are living with this and judgment on top of the school exclusion etc must be awful.

Am I right in thinking you are saying the father goes to the beach as he can’t cope? Or was that your DH?

AlarminglyAwful · 22/08/2024 06:21

coolpineapple1 · 21/08/2024 16:06

I have a child who is ND she wouldn't be violent but holidaying with another family would be a nightmare for her. She would be totally disregulated and anxious. All ND children are different and I can understand how this is affecting you and your families holiday so huge sympathies. I think they really should have expected this and said when you were making the arrangements that it wouldn't be a good idea.

I agree with this. I have an ND 6 year old and wouldn’t put him, or another family, in this position.

Those saying ‘just tell her off’ haven’t fully experienced PDA. I’m not necessarily saying DC’s parents are dealing with it well but they might well be over a barrel.

JaneFallow · 22/08/2024 07:09

localnotail · 22/08/2024 06:04

Yes, some hidden away, maybe. But also, because this kind of behaviour was not tolerated. I cant imagine someone's kid throwing my mum's bag into the pool! That would be scandalous.

Dont get me wrong, its great that we are much kinder and more inclusive as a society, but I think an aggressive 7 year old terrorising adults should either be taught how to behave or have therapy and medication to help her deal with the world. She has to live among other people, and there are boundaries. Her parents are doing her a massive disservice, imagine being excluded from primary school for aggression! What kind of life awaits her when she grows up?

Show quote history

You really have no idea.

Calliopespa · 22/08/2024 07:15

localnotail · 22/08/2024 06:04

Yes, some hidden away, maybe. But also, because this kind of behaviour was not tolerated. I cant imagine someone's kid throwing my mum's bag into the pool! That would be scandalous.

Dont get me wrong, its great that we are much kinder and more inclusive as a society, but I think an aggressive 7 year old terrorising adults should either be taught how to behave or have therapy and medication to help her deal with the world. She has to live among other people, and there are boundaries. Her parents are doing her a massive disservice, imagine being excluded from primary school for aggression! What kind of life awaits her when she grows up?

Show quote history

Yes! The parents were crazy to be relaxed about the exclusion🙄.

They will be trying @localnotail, they will be trying .

Nowordsformethanks · 22/08/2024 07:20

The child's behaviour sounds more like PDA

It really doesn't. She isn't avoiding demands or expectations. She's aggressively making demands of everybody else and not taking no for an answer. That has nothing to do with PDA.

Seriously, PDA has become the new self-diagnosed Autism, BPD, ND, Anxiety and Depression, etc. People learn about it and suddenly every autistic person now also has an internet diagnosis of PDA no matter what they do. Boils my piss.

Fivebyfive2 · 22/08/2024 07:24

Tinymrscollings · 22/08/2024 02:40

@altmember

All kids need consistently applied boundaries, discipline and to some extent, routines. I've always been led to believe that this is especially crucial with ASD kids? Any child that's got used to always getting their own way is going to have a tantrum when told something different, and they know this is the route to getting their way. If the parents can't/won't apply appropriate boundaries then they're making a rod for their own back.

You’re right, but the way in which those boundaries are enforced when a child is demand avoidant/PDA are entirely different. People with PDA cannot tolerate any loss of autonomy or the sense that another person (parent, teacher usually) is ‘in charge of them’. Not cause they’re spoiled (although they certainly can be) or poorly parented. Demand causes overwhelming anxiety and leads to the kind of behaviours the OP is seeing.

Most kids:
Parent: Timmy, If you throw that in the pool I will take you back to the room for the rest of the afternoon
Timmy: throws bag in the pool
Parent: ok, let’s go.
Timmy: cries in the room for 5 minutes, says sorry, learns lesson, remembers next time

PDA:
Parent: Timmy, If you throw that in the pool I will take you back to the room for the rest of the afternoon
Timmy: throws bag in the pool
Parent: ok, let’s go.
Timmy: has to be dragged to the room, scrapes his elbow and accuses parent of hurting him on purpose. He screams, swears, hits, bites for the ensuing 6 hours. He’s completely overwhelmed and tries to overturn a buffet at dinner so has to be removed, again by force. One parent has to sit in the room with him whilst he spits at them and laughs. They don’t get dinner. Timmy is far beyond the reach of reason and so disregulated that he kicks a wall repeatedly for 8 hours and keeps his whole family up. The next day they go to the pool and he immediately finds a bag, makes full eye contact with the parent and throws it in because you’re not the boss, he’s the boss

OR:
Parent: Timmy, what does it say on the Swimming Pool Info Sheet (1) about other people’s things?
Timmy: pauses, goes to throw bag in pool
Parent: Timmy shall we look at the information sheet together?
Timmy: comes to look at information sheet
Parent: What will happen if we don’t follow the swimming pool information sheet?
Timmy: We have to leave because the hotel manager doesn’t let people throw things in the pool
Parent: Yes, and we’re having a great time so if you’re feeling in a throwing mood we could throw these (2) to each other?

(1) If it’s written down and you are simply communicating the standards expected at the pool rather than giving an instruction, Timmy is receiving information via you and will absorb the rules. Before coming on holiday you have thought out the swimming pool rules that you have to call an info sheet, typed them, printed several copies and laminated one for the swimming bag. You have taken Timmy through the sheet each and every time you go to swim and confirmed that he has understood them to avoid arguing that he didn’t know/hear/understand. Timmy has been told that if we don’t abide by the rules then we’ll have to leave the pool because the hotel manager won’t allow it. The hotel manager is a convenient made up third party that you can use to externalise the demand so it isn’t coming from you to Timmy and he doesn’t feel threatened. You have several other information sheets for other potential flash points, but forgot to do a couple and will have to wing it and hope for the best. Sometimes it will work. Sometimes he will hit his brother or throw a glass at a wall

(2) soft skim toys which you researched extensively (nothing that will hurt anyone, nothing frustrating, nothing that might break a window etc) purchased a week ago and hid in the swimming bag just in case

5 minutes later Timmy takes a child’s inflatable flamingo and we go again, always avoiding directly instructing but constantly setting and enforcing boundaries and reminding Timmy of natural consequences rather than threatening punishment. It is exhausting and it never ends.

That’s not an exaggeration. This is life when you enforce boundaries with PDA. This was long, but the vast majority of people have no idea what demand avoidance is and what ‘just enforce some boundaries’ looks like.

edit; terrible formatting

Edited

Your post really stood out for me because it's exactly the kind of thing we do for our 4.5 year old (awaiting assessment) Thankfully he's not naturally violent, but he is very anxious and thinks about/picks up on EVERYTHING - we have to word things in certain ways and prep him for most things or else we're just setting him up to "fail" BUT if he knows The Rules and the clear expectations, he can be very agreeable and reasonable. It's exhausting though, absolutely a full time job!

GemmaS21 · 22/08/2024 07:29

It sounds to me that the parents aren’t having a great holiday either and they can’t just move accommodation or go home because their high needs kid will be with them all the time. No one just gives up and lets their child behave like that if it’s as simple as disciplining them - living with a high needs child is relentless and exhausting and you know at times you do just let things go because you are broken and it feels hopeless.

maybe they wanted to go away with you because they thought a friend would empathise and support them and they for once didn’t want to feel the incredible loneliness that is SEN parenting where everything is a fight. Maybe you could have stepped up and been a good friend rather than judging them all over a forum that is predominantly filled with ableist posters.

oh and the reason why these kids weren’t seen in the past is cos they were shipped off to institutions and I’m afraid for those of you wanting your perfect holidays we don’t tend to do that anymore

saffronflower · 22/08/2024 07:30

@Tinymrscollings thank you so much for your post, I learnt a lot from it and its very well explained.

It illustrates that there are strategies that can help that dont merely involve sitting back and allowing anything to happen because that approach is clearly causing the daughter obvious distress

EHCPerhaps · 22/08/2024 07:35

Why is this in AIBU OP? So that a load of parents with NT kids and no relevant experience can back you up? To increase the stereotypes around parenting ND kids? All these people piling on saying that your friend should ‘learn to parent’ - your friend is clearly trying to parent in a way that suits her young child better and is trying to remove a lot of demands with her child because that is more appropriate.

This thread should be in a SEN section. OP you don’t seem to have much understanding of the diversity of how kids can be affected by autism and how differently parenting need to work accordingly. Have you spoken to your friend about why she is parenting like this?

If you don’t want to be around your friend’s child you can just do something else with your day, that’s easy enough. Your holiday isn’t ruined. You also sound extremely unsupportive of your friends.

PrincessPeache · 22/08/2024 07:49

EHCPerhaps · 22/08/2024 07:35

Why is this in AIBU OP? So that a load of parents with NT kids and no relevant experience can back you up? To increase the stereotypes around parenting ND kids? All these people piling on saying that your friend should ‘learn to parent’ - your friend is clearly trying to parent in a way that suits her young child better and is trying to remove a lot of demands with her child because that is more appropriate.

This thread should be in a SEN section. OP you don’t seem to have much understanding of the diversity of how kids can be affected by autism and how differently parenting need to work accordingly. Have you spoken to your friend about why she is parenting like this?

If you don’t want to be around your friend’s child you can just do something else with your day, that’s easy enough. Your holiday isn’t ruined. You also sound extremely unsupportive of your friends.

They are not parenting in a way that suits their child, they are insisting that “you can’t tell her no”. There’s a huge difference between removing demands and letting your child do whatever they want, including hitting other children, and doing nothing about it. This type of parenting is exactly why other parents of children with PDA have such a hard time getting anyone to understand them. I minimise demands for my child. I do not let him hurt anyone else and I do not let him get his own way all the time out of fear of him having a meltdown. This child’s needs are not more important than any other child’s needs, and most children need to not be hurt by their friends.

My friendship with a PDA Parent just like the one in the OP ended when my son told me that he has learnt that he has to do what the other child wants all the time so she doesn’t get upset or angry. From simple things like always pushing the buttons on the lift (which my son obviously wanted to do too but never could because “you can’t say no to her”) to dictating what happens for everyone else. It was not a lesson I wanted my son to learn - that he has to push his own feelings aside so that someone else can have their own way and avoid a meltdown.

Maria1979 · 22/08/2024 07:54

Irisginger · 21/08/2024 23:57

This is not what a specialist psychologist would recommend.

Show quote history

I was talking about the specific setting being in a hotel with other people. You can do differently at home but here other people need to be considered as well. I doubt a child psychologist would have encouraged this holiday in the first place since it's hell for everyone involved, the 7 year old included.

JaneFallow · 22/08/2024 07:59

EHCPerhaps · 22/08/2024 07:35

Why is this in AIBU OP? So that a load of parents with NT kids and no relevant experience can back you up? To increase the stereotypes around parenting ND kids? All these people piling on saying that your friend should ‘learn to parent’ - your friend is clearly trying to parent in a way that suits her young child better and is trying to remove a lot of demands with her child because that is more appropriate.

This thread should be in a SEN section. OP you don’t seem to have much understanding of the diversity of how kids can be affected by autism and how differently parenting need to work accordingly. Have you spoken to your friend about why she is parenting like this?

If you don’t want to be around your friend’s child you can just do something else with your day, that’s easy enough. Your holiday isn’t ruined. You also sound extremely unsupportive of your friends.

Well said. Some people seem to need to feel better about themselves by passing judgement on parents of disabled children, when they can't possibly know the nature of the child's challenges, or the advice the parents have received from neurodevelopment specialists.

It's always autism/ADHD on these threads isn't it? There is such a poor awareness that these conditions reflect differences in cognitive functioning and delayed cognitive development. Blaming parents or children for differences in brain function just further stigmatises families who have quite enough to cope with without ignorant bystanders piling on. Children's capacities will develop with age and support - frontal lobes do not develop in response to punishment.

This is such a blind spot. No one would go on holiday with a child in a wheelchair, then complain about their attitude or their parent's lack of boundaries, if they couldn't keep up on a walk. But brain development - well that requires censure and punishment.

Dinosweetpea · 22/08/2024 08:07

Nowordsformethanks · 22/08/2024 07:20

The child's behaviour sounds more like PDA

It really doesn't. She isn't avoiding demands or expectations. She's aggressively making demands of everybody else and not taking no for an answer. That has nothing to do with PDA.

Seriously, PDA has become the new self-diagnosed Autism, BPD, ND, Anxiety and Depression, etc. People learn about it and suddenly every autistic person now also has an internet diagnosis of PDA no matter what they do. Boils my piss.

Wow.

L1ttledrummergirl · 22/08/2024 08:37

@Tinymrscollings you didn't mention the need for constant positivity, avoiding the words don't and no. Always offering limited choices, do you want water or squash, do you want a green cup or an orange cup? You can't offer an unlimited choice because they'll choose something that's unavailable and then have a meltdown.

When leaving anywhere fun, giving an allowance, so if you need to leave the pool at 2 0'clock, you tell them you need to leave at 130. You show them the time on the clock and give reminders as it approaches, when they inevitably ask for more time, start to disregulate, you cave and give them 10 more minutes, then another 10 with the promise that they need to leave straight away, no arguing or being upset, and they must get dressed quickly as they've had extra time. Lots of praise for following instructions.

You need tactics, plans, counterplans. You have to be on the alert for anything you haven't thought about and mentally prepared yourself step by step for everything you do.

It's mentally and physically exhausting.

x2boys · 22/08/2024 08:42

offyoujollywelltrot · 22/08/2024 06:14

Your husband is right. Until they start parenting their child, steer clear. I wouldn't blame you for going home, but if you can move into another villa so you can enjoy your time there in peace, do that.

(I'm ND with AuDHD before anyone says I don't understand, it does nobody any favours to leave the behaviour properly unaddressed).

The fact that you are ND and have ADHD is irrelevant, it's a huge spectrum and everyone is impacted differently what works for one person doesn't work for another.