To be so fucking angry. How many more women and children must die?

[Kianai]

I'd almost become numb to it, with all the news so far this year.

Murder after murder of women and their children. Noone ever seeming to link the common denominator. NAMALT.

This latest one today, I feel like something is beginning to snap inside me. Three babies and a young woman dead, because of a fucking man. Again. And again.

news.sky.com/story/police-launch-murder-investigation-after-woman-and-three-children-die-in-house-fire-in-bradford-13200678

I don't think it's any more possible than stopping all dogs from biting if I'm honest. It's hard to rationally influence people that act in fury. There will always be a tiny number of people that snap.

People ask what is supposed to be done but the document I shared shows that in 61% of cases where someone is murdered in a domestic violence case the perpetrator is already known to the police for domestic abuse. The report clearly says that those are the opportunities to stop murder that are being missed.
Like others have said it is often an escalation of behaviour. It very rarely starts with nothing and goes straight to murder.

It is a little pedantic

There will always be situations where things are different, a wife might be a sex worker or a spy or some other high risk job a husband may as you say be on life support.

The difficulty with "he might be particularly easygoing or a good man" is that it's something people often say after the fact "he always seemed so nice, so devoted."

I believe my DH to be a good man, to be easy going but maybe at one point so did women who were later murdered by their spouses. I doubt any of them went into relationships thinking "this man will kill me" although they may have worried about it later on.

If I thought DH was likely to murder me I wouldn't be with him but I think that's probably true of many people who did end up dead. So while it is absolutely possible (I would hope likely) the statistics don't apply equally to my DH and me, I can't be 100% sure and can really (in this case) only use the general statistics as a best guess of risk.

On the upside, most men don't murder their wives, so despite feeling that it is likely DH is the person I am most at risk from, in general I don't go through life expecting to be murdered by anyone.

What?? The majority of men are violent?? Rubbish.

Too many men have aggressive tendencies That they feel entitled to act out on

we don’t want to face this as a society

we see this in the board room, in work spaces, when socialising now many women are being subjected to this during sex what sort of man wants to strangle a woman when being intimate

its far too down played and makes me so angry it’s a struggle to bring up a ds in this world as a single mum when you are trying your best to bring them up to be kind, respectful and thoughtful when so much male entitlement and aggression is excised away

If we're talking about rape then I agree. I think the internet helps a lot of sick fantasies blossom. Even the legal stuff can be truly horrific. But I think most killing comes from a different motivation. Often a kind of nihilistic rage we see in family annihilators.

Yet all the evidence shows that men who kill their partners and families don’t just “snap”. It’s a long, pre-meditated process that culminates in them killing their partner after a history of abuse.

Agree. I don't buy the "he just snapped" stuff. These men know not to just snap when it's a man twice their size.

That female only island sounds like a pretty amazing place to holiday. Speaks volumes about what our experience is like as women that such a place would be a welcome relief.

I once started watching a foreign film set during a historical era, I won’t say which country as I don’t want this to turn into a race/ethnicity thing, but in an opening scene a group of men break into a house and one of the men begins to rape a woman (you can’t see anything graphically and the whole scene is played out almost lightheartedly). The narrator (a man) said something to the effect of the rapist man lacking self control around women, implying that men have to exert self control not to commit rape. It was extremely depressing and I shut the film off at that point. But that line has stuck with me.

People who say this are part of the problem. I don't now what they are like (NAMAL what?) but that is only a small step from outright incel thinking. The fact he apparently hasn't killed anyone yet is gratifying, but he is well above average in the probability of doing so.

Overreacting? Are you reading the same thread as the rest of us? Thousands of women are murdered by their partners/ex/ men they didn’t want to go out with and society has made it very clear they don’t give a fuck about the safety or women and girls and you think we’re overreacting?

Either you’re a man, one of those sick apologists or just stupid- which is it? In any event you are wholly and unarguably wrong!

i hope you never have to learn the hard way just how wrong you are.

Can you share your source showing that perpetrators of domestic abuse are mostly women?

There have been many many studies over the years. There's a thread somewhere on here with literally dozens collated. It's only crime stats that show men committing a vastly higher amount.

All the charities state that men hugely under report DV as they're scared of being seen as 'weak' for being abused by a woman (part of toxic masculinity). Lots of data on the Mankind website about this - most of the callers had never previously discussed it and many said they wouldn't have if the service wasn't anonymous.

Another big factor is that the lack of support services for men makes it seem pointless seeking help. It's like how so many women don't report rape because they know it likely won't go anywhere, making rape statistics equally misleading.

I'm not a misogynist or a man or whatever I'll probably be called on here. I've just always looked at both sides and feel this topic is a lot more complex than usually presented.

Anyway, below is some info about the largest DV study ever conducted - a meta review of 1700 previous peer reviewed studies.

From 2010 to 2012, scholars of domestic violence from the U.S., Canada and the U.K. assembled The Partner Abuse State of Knowledge, a research database covering 1700 peer-reviewed studies - still the largest of its kind. Among its findings:[63]"

• More women (23%) than men (19.3%) have been assaulted at least once in their lifetime.
• Rates of female-perpetrated violence are higher than male-perpetrated (28.3% vs. 21.6%).
• Male and female IPV are perpetrated from similar motives.
• Studies comparing men and women in the power/control motive have mixed results overall.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticviolenceagainstmen#:~:text=The%20theory%20that%20women%20perpetrate,Straus%20and%20Richard%20J.

From the same link...

The 2006 thirty-two nation International Dating Violence Study "revealed an overwhelming body of evidence that bidirectional violence is the predominant pattern of perpetration; and this ... indicates that the etiology of ipv is mostly parallel for men and women". The survey found for "any physical violence", a rate of 31.2%, of which 68.6% was bidirectional, 9.9% was perpetrated by men only, and 21.4% by women only. For severe assault, a rate of 10.8% was found, of which 54.8% was bidirectional, 15.7% perpetrated by men only, and 29.4% by women only.[57]

In 2000, John Archer conducted a meta-analysis of eighty-two IPV studies. He found that "women were slightly more likely than men to use one or more acts of physical aggression and to use such acts more frequently. Men were more likely to inflict an injury, and overall, 62% of those injured by a partner were women."[58] By contrast, the U.S. Department of Justice finds that women make up 84% of spouse abuse victims and 86% of victims of abuse by a boyfriend or girlfriend.[59]

Stop earth. I want to get off

I have personal experience of domestic violence by a woman. HOWEVER, I never got killed and never feared I was going to be.

It's DIFFERENT.

Why can we never ever just discuss male violence agains females

it’s just not allowed is it 🙄😡

Yes, the strength difference is immense. I used to do Thai boxing for years. A really brutal art, quite unlike say Taekwondo, and I stood no chance against the men. Size and strength matter hugely.

This is less the case for men as the majority have the strength to knock another out. So a half decent male boxer of average size would destroy most untrained men, even those much bigger. But we just don't have to power to hurt men in the way most can hurt us.

Twice as many men die of murder as women.
As many women die by accidentally inhaling food as by murder.
Five times as many women die of car accidents than by murder.
Seven times as many women die of suicide than by murder.
Fifty times as many women die from general accidents than do by murder.
700 times more women die of cancer than by murder.

Our chances of being killed by another person are so minuscule as to be irrelevant.

If your desire is to reduce the number of female deaths, you’ve got bigger fish to fry.

If your goal is to believe that you’re one of a beleaguered set of victims facing an existential threat, then by all means continue.

This is such a good explanation. Jane Monkton Smith explaining the 8 stages of homicide, her book "in control, dangerous relationships and how they end in murder" is an eye opening read.

Because it's not something that occurs in a vacuum. Try starting a thread about police violence against white people with the caveat that nobody can mention POC. Then see what happens.

I know it's not quite an equivalence but you get my point.

There is a lot of it to do with physical strength.

A man once said to me "if we were going to bully and abuse anyone who would we abuse, we are going to abuse the people that are weaker than us obviously, women".

Its an animal world.

If there were a load of people around that were a head shorter than women, presumably we would be pushing and showing them round too. And bullying them.

How to evolve is the question

No I don’t get your point

The discussion can’t be had and it absolutely should be had because we are not facing the issues head on we have to have a diversion

its tedious and unnecessary and once again taking away the focus of male violence

I think you miss the point. Very many women live in apprehension in violent or coercive relationships and the fear of serious or fatal violence is widespread. The fact that death is relatively uncommon does not reduce the corrosive effect of fear. And the not uncommon broken eye socket or jaw. Why do we worry about terrorism, since it is a tiny threat compared to car accidents and cancer? It is wrong, and should be changed. And considerable effort is warranted to change it.

It surprises me in society how many people actively support abusers.
Quietly I won’t. I would make necessary acknowledgments in the street to a man I know to be an abusive partner, so as not to escalate any conflict. ‘Hi John’ or whatever.
Hell would freeze over before I employed him to do work in my home or used his business, if there’s so much as an accusation.
It’s my way of believing women, and supporting them. It’s also my way of restricting his finances and social standing.
It doesn’t need to be a public boycott, doesn’t require sharing the information with anyone I know. It’s my own personal stand against these men.

I haven’t read the full thread (yet) but if she hasn’t been mentioned already Laura Richard’s aka Crime Analyst is an amazing advocate for women and for fighting back against violence against women & girls. She’s ex Scotland Yard, has been advocating for a stalkers register in the UK and has helped make coercive control a crime in NSW and QLD here in Australia. She breaks down the patterns of violent behaviour from men and how they lead up to ultimately killing their partners/children. Well worth a listen/watch of her podcast and YouTube channel.