Prison life choice?

[Hceey]

I don't understand my DN. He is in prison and has been in and out for years on short sentences.

He comes out, lives in a homeless group for a bit, robs food and drink. No drugs to what I know to. He then goes back in prison at some point.

The whole thing is fucking ridiculous and I want to help him. But, I don't understand him and his way of thinking. The support from the system is not there. Yes, I don't know the full facts, I admit.

He comes out and does the same thing over and over. He has no support, they send him out and what? I don't understand how the system is meant to work?

He will be out soon with nothing, no home and no job. I think they give him some cash, but that's it.

I can offer him a sofa, but not long term. I cannot afford to support him though and so he will go back to robbing.

I feel useless.

AIBU to feel the system is shite?

I'm posting because I'm hoping to hear from someone who knows or been through this. Realistically, how hopeful is it he will ever get a job with his past?

Is his future really gonna be prison then retirement?

Thank you to everyone. I have listened. I will look at Timpson's and factory work when he is out. I will speak with his PO. I will try to help him where he needs it.

There is only so much I can do. A few have said how naïve I'm being and yes, you are right. But, if I don't try, no one else is. I have seen it with my own eyes, there is no support other than charity and that is not enough. I say that with gratitude.

I'm blown out the water by some of the things said here. The questions of history, drug use and disbelief when answered are mind blowing. If this is what it's like for people who leave prison, then no wonder so many fail. The outright blame layed at prisoners door for lack of support from a system that is meant to be there and is not. My DN may have committed the crime, but he did his punishment. The system is meant to help people, not rip their lives away and then kick them to the cold when their time is spent.

I asked for help on understanding, not being told how silly I'm being and made to feel like I'm under scrutiny. I've been honest, I don't have all the answers. What I do have is a DN coming out of prison with nothing. Yes, I can wash my hands of him. But, then what? There is no support. I think this is what a lot truly fail to understand. People are told all these stories about this support network in place, but few try to use it. When they do, they realise, it's non-existent.

My daughter worked in Belmarsh (cat A) and Thameside (cat B). She says that those in Thameside, who were on 'good behaviour' enjoyed a decent lifestyle. She read letters to inmates from other offenders saying 'it's a holiday camp there'. Meals, TV, PlayStation, their own clothes. Cigs and drugs. They smoke tea bags! Many are repeat offenders. Prison life seems to be the best option for some poor souls. Sad isn't it.

Also, my ex's brother used to get jobs on building sites.
At one point he was doing well, but then one stupid weekend bender and everything went pear shaped again, but that's him.

Maybe a building site job would work for your DN.

What you’ve just said is quite right@Hceey Its easy for people to be righteous without having experienced or seen close up how the system actually works.

The vast majority of people in prison have suffered trauma, mental heath problems, and addictions resulting from these. It’s very sad.

I think you’re going a lovely thing trying to help him, and you seem well aware of the potential problems.

Your nephew's social circle will be criminal ... sorry to say, but whatever things beyond his control got him to this point, this will be true. Do you want your household associated with this or sucked into it?
I know you think all will be well and your motives are positive, but the realities of the sort of criminal network he will be involved with are not something you want to be a part of your life.
He may have started out relatively innocently after stealing to eat, but the fact that he is repeatedly imprisoned means he will have been exposed to networks that you do not want anywhere near your home. And it also means that his crimes are unlikely to be trivial. There will be more to this than falling on hard times and needing food.
Criminals are good at demanding money under threats... he may be stealing to order for a drug ring ... he would not be going to prison for stealing a sandwich to assuage his hunger.
I have something similar in my family and really understand the evil networks that lie behind this sort of life. We all want to help but are doing so in ways that do not put us or our children at any risk ... we have to stand back and analyse what we can safely do. I know this sounds hard hearted and goes against the impulse to help, but life is harsh and we cannot be blind to that. You must open your eyes too.
The absence of properly funded prevention and support services is a disgrace and it is tragic that people like your nephew have been impacted by this; but you must factor in self preservation for you and your family.
You do not want his criminal associates knowing where you live.

Agreed
Many yrs ago I knew some homeless men who felt safe and secure in Jail.
They said all their friends were there, they were fed, and looked after.
I was a teenager at the time, these were middle aged men, obviously their childhoods were less than stellar.

Jails back then were much better funded though.
Far less crowded.

Why aren't his own parents offering him a roof and support?

If he has been street homeless there 100% is addiction/ mental health and violence.
They are on the street because they can’t be housed in normal temporary accommodation due to eviction for the above or they have chosen to leave due to mental health.
Sorry- I work in this field and it is the reality.
also/ sustained employment straight out of prison after years of offending and criminality is a pipe dream.

You are right that the support network is at best patchy and at worst just about non - existent. That is certainly my experience in recent years.

I'm saying this kindly but I think you do need to find answers to some of the questions that others have raised. I've never worked with an ex offender who hasn't had significant trauma in his childhood (loss of parent, family breakdown, major accident , care system ....) and almost everyone I have worked with has a drug or alcohol problem and/or mental health problems of varying severity. And I've worked with dozens of people. Some sort of treatment plan is probably going to be needed.

@Hceey thank you for caring so much for your nephew. In your position I would look for employers who take on offenders and look into counselling for him to help him not re offend. I know quite a lot of ex prisoners, all drug related though. All on the straight and narrow now. I hope your nephew appreciates your help.

spot on

There are a few podcasts which I'd suggest you listen to to try to understand a bit more. I think that would really help you to understand a bit more and begin to find ways to help. Life After Prison, a Bit of a Stretch and The Secret Life of Prisons.

The system is utterly screwed. The total lack of link up with mental health support IS the problem. The length of time to get support even when you are classified as 'in crisis' is criminal. (Yes deliberate choice of wording there).

And even then it's a box ticking thing where if you don't fit quite right you fall through the cracks very easily.

Quite simply it's not fit for purpose.

The number of people in prison with learning difficulties, ADHD and mental health problems is far higher than the general population.

To then turn around and say 'well they are making choices' fundamentally fails to understand the additional problems that these issues create - particularly in even accessing support, nevermind keeping up with support long term.

Everything is weighted against people in this situation and geared up to the needs of people who don't have these kind of barriers.

My own experience has spelt this out.

Errrm no. As I already said the post was not political and I was not blaming the current government. The point was the current rush of prisoners coming out on September 10th if they have reached the 40% mark and the community probation reset that means short sentence prisoners will not even see their probation officers in person. That has been brought in very suddenly and probation staff are really struggling to make duty to refers for a number of services. That’s a fact.

The Labour government have had to do that because of Tory policy. I didn’t think it was necessary to point this out as my post was about trying to explain the lack of ability for ‘the system’ to do much with a man stuck in the revolving door of the criminal justice system.

But don’t let your inability to read the thread stop you frothing and let your own partisan views and anger stop you from making a sarcastic little rant hey?

Hopefully the appointment of James Timpson will help

@Hceey What you are trying to do is admirable- but I do know a man who tried to help someone in a not dissimilar way.
It all went well- Til it didn’t.

He said he regretted trying to help the chap ( who presented very well)
Sometimes the drivers to carry on unwise choices is just too much.

Sounds like your DN drinks
He’s likely to steal from you, and bring his dodgy mates round.

You can’t make him change.

Only he can decide that.

Some people do change!

A heroin addicted person got a job at nights cleaning operating theatres in hospitals - they had a Methadone script.

The person stuck at this for many years, and got a pension from it.

But they had decided this themselves.

@Hceey What you are trying to do is admirable- but I do know a man who tried to help someone in a not dissimilar way.
It all went well- Til it didn’t.

He said he regretted trying to help the chap ( who presented very well)
Sometimes the drivers to carry on unwise choices is just too much.

Sounds like your DN drinks
He’s likely to steal from you, and bring his dodgy mates round.

You can’t make him change.

Only he can decide that.

Some people do change!

A heroin addicted person in and out of jail got a job at nights cleaning operating theatres in hospitals - they had a Methadone script.

The person stuck at this for many years, and got a pension from it.

But they had decided this themselves.

This. Or even visit him. Get to know him and see if you can form a trusting relationship. Then you will understand how best to support him or maybe decide that you don't wish to support him after all. But there is a chance you could be the person who helps him turn his life into something much more positive.

I did an internship counselling in a prison when doing my MSc in psychotherapy. A lot of people see prison as the only place where they can be safe, secure and free of responsibility. As one said to me 'I love it in here Miss, I get my own bed, three meals a day and no one can lay a hand on me'. She was serving a relatively short sentence that time but she will have been back inside within days. She (and many others) can't cope in the real world.

It is so complicated. A large amount of prisoners are undiagnosed neurodivergent people (I am not saying neurodivergent people are all criminals but studies have shown that at least 40% of the male prison population are undiagnosed). Also a lot of prisoners have complicated histories with the vast majority having had traumatic early childhoods which have impacted their lives/development/behaviour which has impacted the route their lives have taken. Then there’s social influence added to the mix…throw in poverty, addiction issues…and many other social/political/economic factors and the fact that there can be any combination of the above it really is complicated.
Then add the fact that this behaviour can become habit, there’s no support to break the cycle. Prisoners can also become institutionalised and actually feel like they don’t know how to function in the outside world and so they reoffend with the intention of being sent back as it is familiar and is all they know.
There are charities that specialise in helping prisoners and people with convictions to break the cycle but they are small and limited in what they can do.
There are also charities that specialise in finding jobs for people with convictions and then supporting the employer and the new employee in retaining this job. The reoffending rate drops significantly if a person manages to hold down a job past 6months.
Also there are companies that specifically support and encourage people with convictions. Try Greggs, Green King pubs, Timpsons, Iceland to name a few. There is help out there but it is hard. I think here in the midlands more is happening to try and reduce reoffending rates but it is a slow process.

Yes- I have seen this happen in the run up to Christmas. Young men deliberately offending to get back in for Christmas as they will be warm and fed. Some people just have unbelievably shitty lives.

Agreed!
Paternal prison makes some feel very safe.

Another provider of useful services is the Salvation Army. In some areas they offer support to find work and they also can provide lunches etc and social clubs. Worth taking a look.

@Hceey in terms of benefits he should be entitled to UC which is about £380 pcm, I suggest if you are able you attend his first job centre appointment where the claimant commitment is discussed and argue (politely!) for some more relaxed rules if you do not think he will be able to look for and evidence 35 hours of job search. This is maybe what he said he 'failed' at last time. He needs to regularly check his online claim, maybe this is something you could help with too.

His local council may be able to help with deposit and first months rent in advance if he is thinking of private rent (and then UC will pay for a certain amount of rent) but tbh this might be hard to find. Maybe best to support him living at the homeless hostel.

Sorry but you are naive. Just read your posts so I'm probably duplicating. The systems to help may be poor but they do exist and he will have been offered help before it got to this stage. If he has no accommodation he probably has a drink or drugs problem so wouldnt stay in what was offered. There are limits on what any system can do for someone who cant change themself.

You can claim benefits when homeless. If you give him a sofa make sure he claims. https://www.akt.org.uk/resources/claiming-benefits-while-homeless/ He can get a referral to a food bank. He can look for potwashing, cleaning or labouring jobs or sell the Big Issue He will probably still steal and may steal from you. He is likely to go back to prison because he obviously struggles to cope outside. Maybe with your support he can turn a corner but the chances are you will end up considerably poorer and he wont change.