Prison life choice?

[Hceey]

I don't understand my DN. He is in prison and has been in and out for years on short sentences.

He comes out, lives in a homeless group for a bit, robs food and drink. No drugs to what I know to. He then goes back in prison at some point.

The whole thing is fucking ridiculous and I want to help him. But, I don't understand him and his way of thinking. The support from the system is not there. Yes, I don't know the full facts, I admit.

He comes out and does the same thing over and over. He has no support, they send him out and what? I don't understand how the system is meant to work?

He will be out soon with nothing, no home and no job. I think they give him some cash, but that's it.

I can offer him a sofa, but not long term. I cannot afford to support him though and so he will go back to robbing.

I feel useless.

AIBU to feel the system is shite?

I'm posting because I'm hoping to hear from someone who knows or been through this. Realistically, how hopeful is it he will ever get a job with his past?

Is his future really gonna be prison then retirement?

He definitely will have a probation officer allocated to him OP. One that would work with him inside the prison throughout his sentence and then a community based one. He may not be making the required contact with them and as a result, he could be being recalled hence the cycle.

He's a victim of a broken system but he has to want to change and he has to engage with what help is available to him.

Going forwards he might have a better chance due to the new government and James Timpson being the prisons minister.

Are you saying he doesn't do drugs and it's 'just' homelessness and lack of money that's holding him back?

If that's the case, can you let him stay with you for say 3-6 months, in which time he must come home every night and actively seek and positively engage with any practical help available with the aim of getting a job or undertaking any necessary training? So this would hopefully break the cycle that he's trapped in?

There's a number of organisations mentioned above that aim to rehabilitate ex offenders and offer employment, so that's a good start. He might also be able to get taken on for factory work through employment agencies. It's boring but can pay above NMW and if he manages to get and keep a job, he might be able to save a bit of money which will allow him to move out and find a place to live.

I know he got sacked from a supermarket job for bottling a customer.

That's quite different to stealing food because he's homeless and hungry. So he has had jobs and that's what happened. This goes deep and he clearly needs a lot of help if he's to get to a point of change. But as he hasn't had that help, would you feel safe living with him? What would happen if he felt you 'gave him shit'?

Ah, I missed that point about bottling a customer. That does change things somewhat.

I have been listening and will be looking into Timpson's when he comes out. We have two near us, so all being well it will be an option.

@Edingril I have not blamed his childhood or being misunderstood. I have said I feel the system is crap and I stand by that. He is not forced to commit crime, no. However, he has to eat and with no money how?

I know there are charity workers that pass food to the homeless, but it's not enough unfortunately. We have so many die on our streets each year and I don't want that call saying my DN has been found dead due to passing out from lack of food in the cold.

There are many like my DN they come out to nothing. Yes, there is not endless staff, but I'm not speaking about prison staff. Where is the support network after they come out of prison? The job placement? The bedsit? Something, anything.

@olympicprocrastinator I didn't know he had a probation officer in prison. I will ask him about it, thank you. He has spoken about having meetings when he was in trouble in there. Last time he was out, he never said anything about a probation officer. It was not recalled, he was caught robbing food, drink and a coat. It was on cctv over days, not one single time.

@bjorkdidit no, he does not do drugs to what I know to. He likely has used at somepoint, I'm not that stupid. But, he is no addict. He does drink booze though when hanging out with his homeless group and will steal it.

I plan on having him here, but can only offer a sofa. I don't know about 6 months though tbh. See this is what I mean. Where is the support from the system? It seems to me it's all based on charity.

Gosh, I really hope he can get factory work. Boring nothing, it's something. I really feel if I can get him past homelessness and some money it would stop this ridiculous cycle.

I can hope, I really can. I hope that at somepoint the system changes too. We need to stop throwing away people like trash and see they can be of use. Well, maybe not the really bad ones.

You really need to think long and hard before you allow him into your home, and if you have your own children living with you, it really shouldn't even be a consideration, honestly. It is very sad that his life has gone down this path, but my suspicion is that there are a great many things about him and his crimes that you aren't aware of.

I never knew going to prison for a small thing could totally ruin your life. Yes, I heard that, but always thought it was just something we told our kids to stop them being stupid. Maybe if it was just once it wouldn't. DN might be too far down the path.

This is why so many people get a 'slap on the wrist'.

If you can offer him a sofa for a few weeks that is a start.

Set out rules. I hate to say this but hide anything that can be sold.

Help him claim benefits and get him to hand them over to you or even paid in to your bank account. Provide the 3 meals a day and give pocket money.

What is his education level? Many prisoners have low levels of literacy but there are free college courses.

Tell him you are there to support him as long as he stays out of prison.

You are a good person and I wish you and your DN good luck.

Yes, the bottling was the only violent thing he did. It was years ago now. I don't know what happened, but there is no excuse whatever did happen.

I would feel safe living with him, yes. I don't know what you mean when you say it goes deep @pinkdelight?

I don't know what help you think he needs, but he's not getting it. It's been years. There is no help, the system cannot even give them a roof let alone emotional help. The bottling was years ago, he has not brought it back up since. But, that was the last job I know about.

He always seems so cheerful, I don't think he has emotional issues.

The in and out of prison has been from stealing, always short sentences and then out. We are talking months, not years. I mean it has been years in and out, but the sentences themselves have been months at a time.

You said a customer “talked shit to him” and he “bottled him”… Does that mean that he lost it and cut him with a smashed bottle? That doesn’t sound like someone with a stable temperament to me. It sounds like you need to be very, very careful about your own physical and emotional safety if he is this labile. I think you need to speak to his probation officer before you organise for him to stay at yours and ask for a very honest description of what to expect.

You say he had no money at all for food- what is his position re claiming benefits? Is there some difficulty with a claim? Does he have debts he is using all his money to repay? UC is not much money but should allow a single person to eat at least.

You sound like a lovely person, but what are his parents doing in all this?

It's a shocking state of affairs but because of various early release and short term recall schemes the revolving door of prison is worse than its ever been currently for this group of people. If it were my nephew I would try and help him have a fresh start somewhere so he didn't get dragged back into the same circle again.

1. it's not your job to fix him. It's good that you eant to help him but if he doesn't want to turn his life around nothing you do will change his course. Have you been visiting him.and do you know what he thinks?

2. he didn't start from here. He's caught in a doom-spiral at the moment of course but breaking him out of it will only be successful if the top level issues that pushed him this way originally are addressed. Mental health? Abusive or violent upbringing? What went wrong originally?

3. giving him your sofa isn't necessarily helpful and may just mean you are hurt too much to help him next time around the doom spiral. Getting him onto a structured post-release rehabilitation programme with professor support would be best but there are so few places on such programmes compared to the numbers needing them.
   Talk to several of the charities that work with offenders who want to turn their livrs around : try St Giles Trust, Prison
   Advice & Care Trust, Princes Trust, NACRO. But there's no point you pushing him into engaging with any of these charities if it's not his choice. Climbing out of this situation is very had work, meanwhile he is probably accustomed to prison life and knows how to survive there, and finds the unpredictability of life outside overwhelming. It may be that he's not ready to break out yet.

I would feel safe living with him, yes. I don't know what you mean when you say it goes deep @pinkdelight?

I mean MH/psychological issues ie it's not just about practicalities like where to sleep and work etc. Of course those are the basics that need meeting somehow but violence like that springs from something unstable in him. You say you don't think he has emotional issues and seems cheerful, and perhaps that outburst was a one-off or maybe drug related but still, knowing he's had no help and indeed as you say there is little to none available, it's important not to be naive about what you'd be getting into taking him on. It's good that you want to do something and there's some useful resources being pointed to on here. I'm just saying that this will go well beyond the practical side of stealing for food etc.

Others are right in that you are probably not aware of the full extent of his problems. Speak to Probation if you can.

And yes the system is completely broken - but probably never worked for a proportion of those in prison. We've known that 'prison doesn't work (for many)' for a long time but still carry on with broadly the same system. It's an unpopular cause, at the bottom of the pile when it comes to funding, and not something that (most) of the great British public concern themselves with except to ensure that people are put away. I too am heartened by the appointment of James Timpson as Prison's Minister. The challenge facing him is enormous and links to our legal system (which is in crisis) and our housing crisis.

Supporting someone to turn their life around is incredibly hard work. But it is a wonderful and most rewarding thing if it is successful.

@sashh thank you for your kind words. Yes, I will help him as much as I can with everything. I don't know his education level. He went to school, but I don't recall any talk about anything else. Basic high school level I would guess. However, I don't know how well he did.

@fraaahnces all I know is just that. He was stacking these bottles and a customer gave him shit. I don't know what about or what was said. I know the guy got knocked out by the bottle and went to hospital. I think he smashed it over his head, not stabbed him with the bottle iyswim. It's been years, how long do I hold it against him? I will ask to speak to the probation officer, I promise.

@threefeettall last time he came out, he did not claim anything. He was homeless and got in with a homeless group. They stayed together and stole together. He was caught stealing and arrested. He was then sent to prison again.

No debts to what I know to. He has claimed in the past, but the job centre are pretty crap tbh. He got cut off because he failed. He then went on to steal food and booze. I don't know what he failed, that's all I got told by him at the time. He ended up back in prison. Again, just to clarify this was not the last time he was out, but another time.

Yes, it's hard to keep track.

Absolutely.

6 weeks of a Labour government are to blame 😂😂😂

Not 14 years of a Tory government who closed 7 prisons?!

Some people really do allow their partisan views to cloud any sense of reality and stunt their critical thinking 🙄

You're blaming "the system" and blaming the job centre for being "shit" but your violent criminal nephew is the root of the problem. He is the only person who is going to change this.

We need to - rapidly - build more prisons and give longer, more meaningful, sentences so turning back to crime is not the easy option.

Does he get a probation officer?

What's his education like - is he literate?

Where are his parents in all this?

Does he have any trauma you know of?

I would look into any benefits he's entitled to. Help him claim those while providing him a roof. Ask him to help with jobs around the house to give him a sense of purpose and to feel useful.

It's very sad but people do get stuck into the in and out of prison routine. And often it's because the underlying cause isn't dealt with. To stop him going back in he needs to deal with the reason for the behaviour that cause him to need to be sent to prison.

I work in resettlement. The prison system is fucked. Some prisons are even giving out tents at the moment due to lack of housing.

It's been years, how long do I hold it against him?

It's not about holding it against him at all. More about having your eyes wide open here. It doesn't matter what the customer said to him. Nothing could provoke that reaction in a person who was stable. So there's a lot going on, as there would be in someone with a long pattern of recidivism, and it's important to not put all of this on 'the system'. You don't seem to know him all that well or on a level of understanding what his problems truly are beyond the surface. Whether he had issues since childhood, what kind of life he's led in prison or homeless groups, what his take is on his lifestyle and whether and how he wants to change. Of course this is only a MN post and lots you can't get into, and I'm absolutely not saying don't support him, but it feels like you're seeing the external issues and not the bigger picture, so just want to make sure you can do that.

@horsesduvets yes, I'm blaming the crap system. Because it is crap. Also the job centre have been in the news for years for throwing people off. They are shite. When I was young the centre helped you and had jobs on a board. What do they do now? Nothing, waste of money.

Do tell me how would giving my DN a longer sentence stop him coming out to nothing and stealing again? You could look him up for ten years and the release would be the same unless system failing to give him support. No job, no home and no money. How would that make stealing not as easy?

You keep saying you don't know the answers to fairly fundamental questions about his life. Why do you not know? EG re education, last trauma, mental health, the nature of his crimes. You don't know these things yet seem adamant there is no addiction issues - but are you sure this the case?

You want to invite him to sleep on your sofa - but are missing some pretty core information.

How close are you to him, or the rest of his immediate family? Why have you not asked him about his life, such that you'd know these things?

OP, I worry - you have a kind heart and want to help, but seen incredibly naïve about the reality and challenge of what you are proposing.

What do his parents or siblings think? Do you have a DP/DH and / or DC - what do they think?

@pinkdelight I am seeing the bigger picture. But, sometimes you need to focus on the detail.

Yes, I know him, but only as well as I can. He is an adult. I don't know what he does all the time. Just like I don't know what my own adult DS does all the time.

I have already made it clear, I give no excuse for DN past. However, he has been failed by the system. It's crap. And he is not the only one.

No, you are right. I don't know what life he has led in prison. I don't know who any of these people are he hangs out with inside or the homeless groups over the years. But, does it matter?

I want to help him, I posted because I lack understanding. I have been clear on that. It has to start somewhere and the system is not helping him. If I say fuck off you made your bed to him, then what? He keeps going in and out of prison. I get a call one day saying he's dead.

I'm afraid that JobCentre is a misnomer. They used to help you find jobs but they are really just a gateway to Universal Credit these days.

Does he have other family support? Are there any other 'good' people who could help? Do you live somewhere away from the old crowd he used to hang out with so that he won't fall back in with them?