Prison life choice?

[Hceey]

I don't understand my DN. He is in prison and has been in and out for years on short sentences.

He comes out, lives in a homeless group for a bit, robs food and drink. No drugs to what I know to. He then goes back in prison at some point.

The whole thing is fucking ridiculous and I want to help him. But, I don't understand him and his way of thinking. The support from the system is not there. Yes, I don't know the full facts, I admit.

He comes out and does the same thing over and over. He has no support, they send him out and what? I don't understand how the system is meant to work?

He will be out soon with nothing, no home and no job. I think they give him some cash, but that's it.

I can offer him a sofa, but not long term. I cannot afford to support him though and so he will go back to robbing.

I feel useless.

AIBU to feel the system is shite?

I'm posting because I'm hoping to hear from someone who knows or been through this. Realistically, how hopeful is it he will ever get a job with his past?

Is his future really gonna be prison then retirement?

Your nephew is making choices. It's his choice to steal, hurt people and repeatedly go to prison. He is an adult with capacity (at least you haven't said otherwise). He knows exactly what he is doing and the consequences.
I only know about Scotland, but here, the Council has a duty to house him (won't be a flat but it will be a bed). He can apply for benefits and then start making attempts at getting his life back.
It will take effort on his part, it won't be handed to him on a plate.
It's not "the system's" responsibility to do it all for him.
I have a huge respect for people who try and turn their life around. They get rejected constantly and don't give up. There is not enough help out there. It's shocking. But that's not the picture you paint of your nephew.

How old is he? I read something very interesting from Lord Timpson saying no point then employing men under 25, destined for failure until they’re a bit more mature. Hopefully if he’s approaching that age this may be the time it clicks. Look at Timpsons jobs though.

No, you are right. I don't know what life he has led in prison. I don't know who any of these people are he hangs out with inside or the homeless groups over the years. But, does it matter?

Of course it matters. You are contemplating bringing this man into your home, when the reality is it's clear you barely know him. It's very sad, but he is not the boy you knew when he was a child. He is an adult with a violent past, and most likely, very significant emotional/mental health issues. You must prioritise your own well being and safety. You will not be able to fix him, no matter what you do.

I would think long and hard about having him in your home, by the sounds of it he’s capable of extreme violence and is chaotic, he’s not going to stick to any ‘rules’ you give him and it will likely end with you kicking him out and damaging the relationship. You could give him support at arms length, let him know he can come to you for food so he doesn’t have to steal, help him look for jobs or education.

I work in prisons and prisoners get more help than the average Joe on the outside.

But typical of prisoners, everything wrong in their lives will be someone else's fault.

Also he will very likely be on drugs if he's homeless and habitually stealing.

The goverment only has 1 pot of cash and that is from taxes, borrowing money from the finance markets still has to be paid back with interest, we have had a pandemic, increased numbers/stress on the NHS etc etc , increased numbers on benefits, yes wasted spending by the government (viewed with hindsight) etc etc , immigration, HS2 (which was never a realistic goer), some privatisation (never unstood why you give it to someone to make a profit when you should be able to do it yourself at cost), so you either cut services, run them better or put taxes up, which do you prefer? just asking

He always seems so cheerful, I don't think he has emotional issues.

I think this is incredibly naive, sorry. What is at the root of all of this? I'm guessing his upbringing wasn't all sunshine and flowers.

OP where are his parents?

Seconded. You are being extremely naive.

Its a difficult situation and there certainly is a lack of provision for prison leavers.

1. He will be assigned to a Probation officer (who no doubt will be either inexperienced or have a massive caseload or both). This maybe someone new to him or someone he has worked with before. He does not get to choose who he works with, and is not allowed to say he won't work with a Probation officer because he has taken a dislike to them.
2. He will have a Probation appointment to attend on release, often the same day or the next day, if he misses this he is likely to be recalled and straight back in for 7/14/28 days. If he misses any of the subsequent appointments the same may happen. (Being abusive to a Probation officer is also likely to trigger recall).
3. Many people in his situation are addicted to drink or drugs or both. They should be released with a link up to their local addiction service, but this may not happen. In my own area the addiction service was well funded under the coalition government (substance abuse treatment being a LibDem priority) and appeared to be offering a good service, but has gone down since, especially during and since the pandemic. Without addiction support and benefits in place they are likely to quickly return to stealing and if they go back before the court and Probation are saying that they are not engaging with Probation they will go back into prison for another short sentence. Engaging with Probation is key here because if they are engaging Probation should ask the court for a community sentence so they can do more work to help the offender.
4. What services are there for the homeless where you/he live? The difficulty can be that offenders who have substance misuse issues, particularly alcohol, can become abusive to the staff/volunteers working with the homeless and this can mean that they are no longer able/willing to assist that person. It maybe worth finding the local provisions and reaching out to them to ask if they can work with your nephew.

You say you're seeing the bigger picture then say all the things you don't know and that you don't believe matter. I'm sorry but that is worryingly naive. You can still help him and be there for him but there's some level on which you have to grasp the complexities of the situation or your efforts will be for nothing. It's good that you're getting advice here and hopefully it will all help to make your goodwill effective.

He always seems so cheerful, I don't think he has emotional issues.

Everyone who is in and out of prison has emotional issues to a certain extent.

I do think you are being very naive about the whole thing. Yes the system could definitely be better but he wasn't in "the system" the first time he ws sentenced to jail yet he still did whatever the first thing was.

I’ve though this, I think prison sounds quite nice compared with homelessness tbh. I read an article on pensioners in Japan deliberately getting caught shoplifting to get sent to prison as they can’t afford to live. As an older society the prison population also has a large proportion of elderly inmates which has lots of challenges institutionally.

OP, maybe your nephew doesn’t want to be out of prision and if that’s the case you can’t help him.

Prision is familiar, it is routine, he knows what to expect. He has a bed, a roof, three meals a day. Access to healthcare when needed. No decisions to make or thinking to do.

On the outside he has none of those things, he has to try to feed himself, he has no home, everything is difficult.

With no strong ties on the outside, I can see the appeal of why he might take the easier option. Sadly he is not a unique tale in that thinking.

@alexisccd I have answered some. His crimes are stealing. His education was high school level. I don't know how well he did, that is true. But, it's of no help anyway. I want him to get support, not be bloody bollocked about failing woodwork.

What trauma? I have not mentioned any. Yes, I'm sure he is not a drug addict. I have already said, I'm not stupid enough to think he has never used, but not an addict.

What information do I need to offer my sofa? Tell me and I will ask for it.

As a family we are close, but not overly close. We all speak and pop round for a cuppa, complain about crap. What would I ask about his life? I have been in his life since he was born. However, I'm not his mother. We had our own lives when the kids were small and met up about once a week.

I don't understand why these questions matter. Will any of this come up in a interview? I have never been asked what my childhood was like or how many times I saw immediate family in a interview.

I feel my thread is derailing. This was not a post about family history.

@roseshavethorn it was one violent thing, I'm not down playing it, but please don't speak like he keeps doing it. He steals, yes it's choice, but one that is partly to blame on a system that is shite. He needs food and with no money and no home. How else can he get food easily?

I'm not in Scotland, they have something better up there. From the sound of it from what you say, your system is better.

If you want to help him why don't you reach out to the probation officer? They would have to approve and risk assess any address he put forward while on licence anyway. Please be wary you sound very naive.

I used to be a PO many moons ago and we had a housing scheme for 84 nights on release for cases who didn't meet criteria for an approved premises, good homelessness provision locally and you've got Reconnect health services so they come out with a scripting appointment. Family would call up and say the system had let him down, the system had provided him with accommodation on multiple occasions, drug and alcohol support, we even had immediate access counselling provision, education training and employment so people could do courses, get good jobs in things like railway track maintenance which was plentiful and pretty well paid, we had peer mentors, people who had lived experience that cases might be able to relate to more and would accompany them to appointments with other agencies etc, plus the accredited programme and offending behaviour work. A good proportion continued to repeatedly offend and sometimes you'd get to a position where they had burned every bridge with every service going because they'd been aggressive or threatening or violent to staff. If someone isn't high risk it's very unlikely they'd be recalled for a missed appointment, people are given chances.

I also think it's highly unlikely that he's repeatedly Street homeless, has a lot of acquisitive offences that you know about and doesn't have any problems with drink or drugs, I'm not blaming him Christ if I was street homeless I'd want something to take the edge off, but you need to know what you're dealing with.
You also sound very casual about the fact that he bottled someone and not even while drunk in a pub fight, where you might say there were disinhibitors to his decision making, it was while at work in a supermarket....

Some prisons have good provision, lots especially the state owned indeed don't and have long periods of bang up, but that's not the end of the story. Speak to his PO and say you want to support him, they won't be able to share much with you initially and you will need his consent. Do you have children? If so your address isn't likely to be approved

What are his parents' thoughts on all this?

Haven’t read all the posts but you are being very naive.
You need to take a step back- identify what the issues are and work out a plan- but also be realistic that your plan may not be his.
For example:
Issues:
poor mental health, possibly unresolved trauma, even a mental illness such as personality disorder.
addictions
few or no qualifications
Issues with literacy/ numeracy
possible adhd (many prisoners have it and can be explanation for impulsive behaviour)
lack of suitable housing when leaves prison
no positive friendship group. Socially excluded
financially excluded- not accessing the benefits system.

actions:
Get him home to you and not a hostel
Get on housing list as homesless from home and request one bed flat. May be a wait but possibly ways to get his points up or look at private let’s.
Get benefits sorted so accessing UC.
GP appointment to discuss his health issues (which he 99% has) and a pathway to resolve these
Forget employment until the above is sorted as he won’t sustain it and supported options needed initially.
Look at ways he can improve well being and form positive friendships in local area. May not even be at stage for volunteering- might be something like going to the gym.

Yes this!

Also no mention that Starmer has appointed James Timpson in to a prisons role - a man who has many, many years of helping offenders back into work - an outstanding appointment he made on DAY ONE.

I don't understand why the OP is so cagey about his parents' role.

@horsesduvets yes, I'm blaming the crap system. Because it is crap. Also the job centre have been in the news for years for throwing people off. They are shite. When I was young the centre helped you and had jobs on a board. What do they do now? Nothing, waste of money.

Does he even engage with the 'system'??

I'm thinking he probably doesn't.

The prison and probation service are on their knees especially since Starmer introduced people only serving 40% of their sentence in custody.

Why the totally gratuitous reference to Starmer? It is because the prison service was on its knees after 14 years of underfunding that he was forced to bring in early release for some prisoners. Sunak admitted before the election that this was inevitable.

Who else lives with you OP, and how would they feel about having a repeat offender in their home? Theft and violence would be too big an ask for me to have my nephew on my sofa, which I assume means someone else lives with you, or are you in a one bedroom place?

Perhaps you shouldn't have introduced a totally gratuitous and unfounded political dig, then.

By the sounds of it, you haven't actually had a conversation with him so how do you presume to know what he wants?

So he lives on your sofa, for how long? You already said its not a permanent solution.

He needs an address so he'll need a job to save up for rent. Moving costs, deposit and first month's rent, let's say that £2000.

So how long would it take to save £2000 whilst working and having every day living costs?

Let's be honest, his choice of job is already limited because has a criminal record and one that's for theft. Who is going to trust a thief? And especially one that 'bottled a customer'! Sorry, but it's not exactly screaming employ me is it?

You best bet would be to secure him a place in a shelter/halfway house and try to find him a job so that he start to support himself but some people like this are beyond help as sad as it sounds. My ex's brother is always in and out of prison because he's an idiot who just never learns to keep out trouble and seems to think his little group of mates will help him but they seem to lead him straight back to a cell.