To think having an indoor cat is cruel?

[Catnope]

I was looking after my mother’s cat last week - feeding him while she was on holiday and changing the litter tray - and I felt so incredibly sorry for the cat. It’s not the first time I’ve looked after him for her, and not the first time I’ve thought that.

What a shit life for the cat.

Of course I don’t like the idea of cats killing wildlife out there, but to be a prisoner indoors 100% of the time your whole life?!

It’s cruel. Right?! Just me?

Of course I was nothing but lovely to my mother and took good care of the cat. My mother doesn’t let him out because she fears he’ll get stolen or run over. She lives on a quiet and safe street, so I don’t think anyone will want to steal him. At this point, I also think he wouldn’t have a clue how to kill a bird.

Where we are in the USA there are a lot of coyotes so every cat is an indoor cat otherwise it's a dead cat - if it's always been an indoor cat then I don't think it's cruel as that's all they know - just one perspective

Thanks! I mean I realised a while ago this thread is full of closed minded “my reality is the only reality” people, so I checked out a while ago 😂 but it’s good to see there are still sane cat owners around!

Same here. I posted about the coyotes upthread.

Thanks. 🙂 I’m really glad my SIL could take him, because my six-year-old daughter saw this cat for fifteen minutes and decided that she loved him and couldn’t bear the thought of never seeing him again. Our vet explicitly told us that our cat (the one who was bitten by a coyote) would not do well with another cat in the house.

It’s abundantly clear that you keep your windows and doors shut because of your choice to store cats in your house (which is absolutely fine!)

that, however, is very different to causing another person to have to have their windows and doors shut because of other people not taking responsibility for their pets actions.

It’s not reasonable to say one person must go to extreme lengths to try to mitigate the impact of a cat, while the owner can just shirk all responsibility. No, sorry.

There’s double standard all the way through. You made out that I wanted cats killing because I only prioritise the “right type” of non-domestic animal (which took a while to decipher given cats are NEVER a non-domestic animal), yet you’re doing that exact thing and prioritising one animal over thousands of others.

At least you’re finally admitting that you couldn’t give two hoots about anything but yourself. Which was my point.

It isn’t nature when an invasive pet, who has been put there by a human, kills a wild bird.

It’s nice to hear that as a cat owner you make sensible choices and actually care about the wildlife, but please don’t continue to excuse the owners poor behaviour by thinking this is “nature”. It isn’t.

I don't agree that it's not cruel because it's all the know, but I do understand why cats are kept indoors in situations like that.

You're a fine one to talk about empathy after your comment to the poster who lost her cat. Any decent person would have stopped at 'I'm sorry about your cat' but not you, you had to make a dig and you're still using it to make a point.

Are you really too blinkered to recognise that you are the prime example of that behaviour on this thread?
But you're right because you have a certificate...

I have total empathy - for the cat, the victim. The poster didn’t just say she’d lost her cat, she made a very clear point that despite losing the cat she would do the exact same to any other cat and put it at risk 🤯

I also have a ragdoll and until a month ago I would have agreed with you. Mine escaped from the catio one night during a storm (the fence fell over). He was missing for ten days and we were heart broken. He turned up a few streets away where he had been eating another cats food and also using its toilet, as he is obviously far too fancy to poop alfresco! Anyway, he was so happy we found him he ran into the cat carrier. So, while he did survive, I don't think he enjoyed it much, and I think the catio will be excitement enough for him from now on.

Fab post and your gorgeous cat’s considered response is bang on the nail!

At least you’re finally admitting that you couldn’t give two hoots about anything but yourself. Which was my point.

It’s very strange that you would read a post about how I care about some things more than others, and draw the conclusion that I don’t care about anything.

If I have a hierarchy of things I care about, then by definition there have to be things I care about- They just aren’t the things you think I should care about (namely birds and your opinion)

You don’t care about the things I think are important either- that’s how it goes in the world.

You made out that I wanted cats killing because I only prioritise the “right type” of non-domestic animal

That was a post tagging and quoting a specific poster (not you), referring to another poster (who was also not you)- you have decided to intercept my dialogue with someone else and make it about you.

Of course we have hierarchies of things we care about, but most of us don’t kill things we don’t care about - that’s a step too far. That’s having an actual harmful impact, and is different to simply not caring about something.

You didn’t mention which poster you were “referring to” and the person you were replying to was talking about “people who think we shouldn’t keep pets”, and I haven’t seen anyone say that, other than my comment about my view changing regarding pet keeping. Either way, it still shows your double standards no matter who it was aimed at.

Of course we have hierarchies of things we care about,

Right, so as I said, your repeated claims about me only caring about myself are erroneous- I have things I do and don’t care about just like you.

but most of us don’t kill things we don’t care about

Clearly I don’t go out snapping pigeons necks for fun so I suppose you mean that because I think it’s ok for other people’s cats to roam, I’m responsible by proxy for any birds those cats kill? That’s how I “kill things I don’t care about”?

That is a very weird road to go down- what other issues do you apply that logic to in your life? Are people who support car ownership responsible for all the people killed by other drivers?

You didn’t mention which poster you were “referring to” and the person you were replying to was talking about “people who think we shouldn’t keep pets”, and I haven’t seen anyone say that, other than my comment about my view changing regarding pet keeping

Yep, you inserted yourself into something that wasn’t about you.

I’m not sure why you’re arguing so vehemently for people to be able to kill wildlife and other creatures when supposedly your cats have never killed anything and never left your property 🤔

The not caring thing has consistently been about actual IMPACT. I.e. the deaths caused by pets, the misery caused to neighbours etc. not whether you inherently care about pigeons, bluetits etc.

If you don’t care about something and are not negatively impacting it either - cool, great, fine, whatever.

If, as many are, you’re actively causing suffering in various ways, you’re made aware of this, and you don’t care about the suffering you’re causing because it suits you to continue to do it, that is the selfish attitude I’m speaking of.

You say you don’t go out snapping pigeons necks. It’s interesting that. I wonder if outdoor cat owners would go out and grab baby birds from their nests, cut a couple of their limbs off, then leave them to die? I’m going to assume not, as that’s pretty sick. Yet that is exactly what they are doing yet don’t want to have to accept it. Bizarre.

If you don’t care about something and are not negatively impacting it either - cool, great, fine, whatever.
**
If, as many are, you’re actively causing suffering in various ways, you’re made aware of this, and you don’t care about the suffering you’re causing because it suits you to continue to do it, that is the selfish attitude I’m speaking of.

Ok, so you do think we are all responsible for the harm caused by anything we are tangentially linked to.

Yet that is exactly what they are doing yet don’t want to have to accept it. Bizarre.

So, you with your smartphone/lap top/tablet/internet connection are pushing small children into cobalt mines to be poisoned or crushed to death.

You seem to think the very obvious fact that each and every one of us does ‘selfish’ things because it suits us to do them is some sort of gotcha moment, when in fact it’s just the usual way of things that everyone already knows.

@Dreamskies
You lost all of your imaginary moral high ground early on in this thread in a now deleted post when you said, and I quote exactly.
I hope someone’s escaped dog comes into your property and kills your cat
You've tried to weasel out of those words but how about just owning it?
You are a cat hater who wishes death on other people's pets. It's pointless pretending you are a lovely ethical moral person who has been wronged, when you stated your real views so transparently.

@Sounreasonable the things I’ve said NEED saying. And the actions need to be called out. Of course there’s going to be people like you and the others who don’t want to hear it, but that’s tough I’m afraid. The excuses for needless suffering are genuinely insane.

@Grumpyoldpersonwithcats I haven’t tried to weasel out of anything, I’m not going to repeat it as clearly the queens of MN don’t like it and that’s up to them. I’ve not harmed a cat, ever. So please do get a grip. All the cats that have been killed on this thread have been killed by the actions of their owners, but you think that’s ok 😂

Its people I dislike, not cats. And this thread goes a long way to express why!

Of course there’s going to be people like you and the others who don’t want to hear it, but that’s tough I’m afraid. The excuses for needless suffering are genuinely insane.

Im fine with hearing your opinion- I just think you are wrong.

I haven’t made any excuses about anything- from my literal first post I’ve said clearly that I care more about cats than wildlife. I care about wildlife up to a point, but the scales drop on the side of the cat. I really can’t make it any clearer.

. I’ve not harmed a cat, ever.

By your own logic you have.

you say we are responsible by proxy for all harm caused by roaming cats because we agree with or partake in the practice of owning outdoor cats.

So in the same vein, if you have been on a plane, in a car, used an internet server, used a coal/oil based fuel etc you have agreed with and partaken in a practice that harms ALL animals and you are responsible for that harm.

You don’t need to care about them at all, you just need to not kill them for absolutely no reason whatsoever. That’s all. Plus not cause constant issues for others.

But no, you’re right - we should never raise things like neighbour disputes, harm caused on a local level by antisocial behaviour, people’s disregard for the safety of their pets or wildlife, because kids work in mines and planes take off each day 😂 gawd, talk about reaching. Each issue must be addressed on its own. Not to say they’re not issues, but they’re also not excuses either.

No, the damage you do isn’t an excuse for the damage I do- but I’m not the one claiming to have “never hurt” things. You made that claim whilst causing harm to cats, birds, and your neighbours.

Ive owned the fact that by having had roaming cats I accepted some risk to them, and some death to wildlife. I mitigate those inevitabilities as far as I can, and I accept responsibility for the things I haven’t stopped.

You have a problem with my doing that- fair enough. You are very angry and hope a dog will kill my cat, I hear ya.

Wildlife aside there's too many strays living difficult lives out there for anyone to buy a cat. Cats would be a lot happier if people didn't buy them.

To return to the OP's point:
Cats in doesn't have to be cruel but as @grapesstrawberriesplease said, it means you have to make some effort to ensure your cat is stimulated. That doesn't mean spending a bomb on fancy big wheels and massive cat trees necessarily, as many cat owners will tell you they bought this or that and cat ignored it.
It means paying some attention. Even if cat does go out, inside should still be somewhere they are happy to be if you want to see them at home occasionally.
Get to know your cat. Some want interactive play. One we had loved her completely unfancy bit of cork on an old shoelace dangling from a bit of bamboo cane. Tried that with our current cat and he looked at us with utter distain. He likes batting random things round the floor. If you get balls or felt mice, or even good old corks for this, get several, only have a couple out at a time, then periodically move the settee to get them out from under it.
If your cat is a climber, get them something to climb on. Again, doesn't have to be fancy, just sturdy. Fitting shelves to the wall for them can work. If they don't seem interested, tell them they aren't allowed on it. Some cats like to go where they know they shouldn't.
Make sure they can see out if they want to. If you have wide window ledges, leave an ornament free space for the cat to perch on. If not, put something by the window tall and sturdy enough.
Scratching posts or a mat you don't mind them clawing is a good idea. Neither of my cats ever went for the furniture, but our first had a thing for the bannister post, so we put old carpet round it for her.
I do think there's a sensible point to be made about how people perceived cat ownership. Our current cat was a rescue. He clearly wasn't feral, he had been owned at some point. At the time, we lived in a tourist place with seasonal workers and the lady at the rescue centre said it wasn't uncommon for seasonal workers to have cats and simply leave them behind at the end of the season. Far fewer people would even think of doing that with a dog.
Yes, cats are different in some ways to dogs. Domestic cats aren't pack animals. They genuinely don't require as much interaction and usually want it on their own terms. They sleep a LOT more. Harder to train, but it can be done. When comes to being stuck inside, most wouldn't think it's acceptable to leave a dog stuck inside with nothing to do in a tiny flat for eight hours a day. But with cats, because they do seem to need less interaction with us, and they sleep more, people think it's acceptable. It isn't, but that doesn't make 'outside' the only answer. They need a stimulating environment. They need space to charge up and down in, many (but not all) like access to high places, etc.
Dogs have toys. Cats like toys too, just not always the ones you buy for them. Doesn't mean they are content with nothing to play with at all.
You can give a cat a good indoor life. But it involves some thought. More thought than putting in a flap.
Bottom line, cats get bored indoors if you don't do anything to make indoors less boring.