Am I being mean about the "supersweet" friend?

[endlessnonsense]

I have a friend (well, she's equally a friend of me and DH, she and her XH used to be our neighbours). We now only see her a couple of times a year as we live far away now, and I wouldn't call her a really close friend. When we go on holiday, which is to a hot seaside place in Europe, we often get friends joining us as we have a place to stay and a boat, which is fun. This year she came.

I spent a lot of the time she was here in a state of suppressed anger at her, which caused me to resent her being here. This is because she turned out, on a several-days long time together, rather than the odd dinner we usually have, to be constantly pretending (or was she pretending?) to be very thoughtful and considerate, when I felt she was being just the opposite, in a passive aggressive way.

Everywhere we suggested going and everything we suggested doing, she deferred to us, "oh I'll do whatever you want, don't worry about me", never offering any suggestions of her own or seeming especially enthusiatic. OK, fair enough, we know the place and she doesn't. But it went much further. She was always faux putting herself down/being the martyr/putting on performative sweetness.

My son has special needs and she is always supersweet to him, but I told her multiple times during the holiday, no, he doesn't want an ice cream, he doesn't like it. It must have run into more than a dozen times she said, "oh darling, do you want an ice cream, oh please let me get him an ice cream, I'll pay"(as though I wasn't getting him the ice cream myself because of meanness). (Strangely, although she knows he does like chocolate, she never once offered to buy him a chocolate)

We planned a trip to a particular place she hadn't been, specifically to show it to her. Other friends were coming too, they are local and had been to the place many times, but we're coming along to be sociable with us and her. When she asked me how many people were coming and I mentioned it would be quite a few (in positive way, saying it would be a fun social event) she said, all sweetly, "well if you don't have room for me I'll just stay behind at the apartment, I don't mind at all". That really annoyed me, she knew the trip was arranged specifically for her!

Another (even more annoying) example, we were at a beach bar/restaurant with a bunch of people. Too many to get one table so we were split between 2 tables. Our food came marginally before the other table's (not more than 2 or 3 minutes). In that time she expressed concern that the toddler at the other table had not yet got her food, and actually got up to take her own plate of food to the toddler (it was a salad of some sort and the toddler was getting chips, so not even remotely the same thing). Me and DH had to physically get her to stop it and sit down before the toddler's mum saw.

She has always been very much a "oh don't worry about me, I'll just have a tap water" type of person, but on this holiday she really got my goat. She's left now and I am not sure if she noticed I was a bit snippy with her by the end. AIBU and a mean friend?

Oh so much this: My E-H would always help if someone was around to see, but it would be help I didn't need or want - if I came back from shopping for example he'd sigh and rush to carry the bags in from the car so the neighbours could see, saying "let me help, tsk tsk, BHS can't manage". he'd say "but I ALWAYS help you!!" yet ask him to hold a baby, take the dog out or clean the windows, no way.

She has not done much evil. She is probably anxious because she is single and you are in couples? I prefer solo holidays and socialising or with my immediate family. Before getting married many people would invite me to things and the minute there are couples or more people whom I don't know, all I wanted to do is escape or make myself invisible. So probably I tried to feed a toddler also and in my case that went very well, because that toddler did not each much apart from mashed potato and since that day he started asking the food Milky made and his mum used my name to encourage him to eat: eat this for Milky......what a bizarre situation. The woman has not done much wrong

+1

YOU are interpreting her actions as passive aggressive. SHE may just be that sort of person who was raised in the 'children should be seen but not heard' era or raised and taught to always defer to others. That would explain why she is particularly sensitive to the perceived needs of children. She may genuinely have thought 'I don't want anyone missing out/compromising what they want to do to suit me'.

I was certainly raised that way. If we were ever offered anything at someone's house as kids, we were told never accept it, as that was rude or if we were allowed to take dome birthday cake or something at a party, to only ever take the smallest slice. Never accept all the praise and always defer to the group wishes and not put yourself first.

In other words she may just be a completely guileless person. You know super sweet people really exist and are never appreciated in society. Social parlance in the UK expects everyone to hide themselves to a degree, don't put your heart on the table, don't accept people at face value, don't appear too ernest, don't be too 'good' etc etc., don't be too nice to those who don't return it, a lot of social hangover BS from the Victorian era. It must be really tough to manage for some people especially if they have SEN. These days I more and more appreciate the forthrightness and straight forwardness of other cultures. It's refreshing.

That said I get that it could be nonetheless annoying if your personalities differ. I think it's a personality clash, but there's no need to dissect the poor woman's character and ascribe nasty motives to what were likely just her being herself without intention to seriously annoy.

@Projectme "I also work with someone very like OP's friend. Drives me bonkers with the 'oh don't worry about me' but in the next breath 'life is so shit for me atm; XYZ has happened' (typical event like a bulb going in the car) 'why does it always happen to me...' gaaahhhhh!!!!!"

Yes!! So it seems these behaviours go hand in hand, omg we should start more threads!

If I was visiting somewhere for the first time and staying with people who knew it well I'd defer to their suggestions. As for the day out and I'll stay behind, if that was me it would mean, "I'm worn out with all this socialising and would love a day to myself just chilling." The icecream is odd, has she got memory issues?

If you don't like her you don't like her but none of it seems particularly awful.

@Frasers I didn't dislike her before this trip, and I don't really dislike her now. But perhaps this trip has revealed that we are not very compatible. Insincerity is probably my number one disliked trait in people.

I don't care about her being single, that's ridiculous, and the joke about her finding a bloke was about hoping she might not want to come here next year. A couple of weeks before this friend was here, another (much closer) friend was here, she is also going through a divorce and is having quite a hard time. At the same time, another, perpetually single, female friend was here. We all had a blast together and both of them have already booked to come for longer next year. It's nothing to do with her being single. I have lots of single/divorced friends. More than married ones.

I may have my faults (many) but I am not a bully. I tried my best to be kind to her, but my annoyance probably showed in her more annoying moments. She said she is coming back next year so I don't think she felt bullied.

Is she actually being passive aggressive though, or just infuriatingly passive? PAs usually have a self-serving endgame in sight ‐your holiday companion sounds like she's just developed unfortunate and ultimately unhelpful strategies for trying to 'fit in' and not be in a position where she is expected to take responsibility for decisions, which can be an anxiety thing. Out of interest, how did she present in her marriage? If her H had a tendency to 'drive' and rule the roost, and that's the context in which you first knew her, she may be continuing in the same passive vein.
I feel sorry for her. And you, of course.

Sounds like a trauma response to be honest. Kids learn to people please as a survival mechanism. It also means they see exaggerated pain all around because of their own inner pain which is why she took salad to the toddler. As for the icecream, she’s so tangled up in her own trauma headspace that she autopilots most of her peripheral interactions and never quite takes in details.

I often say I don’t mind, because I really don’t. Also, I’m a bit lazy and like others to make decisions, especially on holiday. I’ll just go with the flow. Does that make me a people-pleaser? I make important decisions in my professional life so it’s nice to take a break.
My guess is that your attitude towards your friend will have been very apparent to her, but instead of calling you out on it, she went the other way and attempted to win you back.
She’ll be feeling raw following her marriage break-up and dare I say a bit vulnerable.
Hopefully, she’ll decide to go away with nicer friends next time.

Yes, this is absolutely correct. I also think a lot of people, when they read something written down (like the OP’s account of her friend’s) struggle to imagine what’s described in any way or tone beyond the one they personally imposed on it the first time they read it.

All these are incredibly mild to non-existent things, I thought you were going to say something bad. Some of the holidays I've read about on here about friends have been horrific.

@Happyinarcon, this!

The people we know here are not all couples by any means. Some are actually single and some came without their partners, for whatever reason.

Why would you invite some random ex-neighbour to stay with you when you’re not really even friends? Middle class people baffle me!

I faded out a girl like this I used to be actually reasonably good friends with because after a holiday together, I realised she was an inveterate 'I don't mind-er'. I came home feeling drained and as if I had been on holidays with a child but one I had to be super polite to all the time. I like my friends to have something about them, a bit a verve and personality. I'm afraid just being nice or agreeable or even kind isn't really enough. And in fact can somewhat irritating in large or inappropriate doses. I agree with another poster who said this thread performs an important public service for those people - usually women - who are perplexed as to why their ceaseless attempts to bend themselves to others wants, to 'perform' acts of kindness don't result in loads of friendships or at least not the kind they want. I have a few people like that in my life and while they might be very nice people to a point, I ain't going to be arranging to meet them for a fun Friday night out, much less wanting to go on holidays with them.

Overly nice people, the extreme self sacrificers and the compulsive acts of service types make me uncomfortable. They are going WAY beyond the normal level of nice and helpful etc and it sort of ends up making everyone else feel like they are a bunch of cunts for not being a 'waterfall of sweetness' when they just aren't going to nuclear levels. It sort of feels like a kind of shaming.

I am mostly a perfectly nice person and help people out, try and be considerate of others etc, I have my moments where I'm sub par, don't we all, but I'm not a monster. I have one mate whose treacle laden perfomance just IRRITATES ME. There is almost a frantic pushy energy under the sing song nice concern for others, tripping over herself to be the one to notice a thing needs correcting (like your friend with the toddler waiting for the meal), the repeatedly trying to force acts of 'niceness' on others when they've clearly declined for whatever reason. It's incongruent and jarring. We are not your ego kibble dispensers.

The other friend who was like this I suspected they were actually a shithead under all that saccharine. No-one else could see/sense it "she's SO sweet, how could you think she's not nice!, you are a meany perpetualnothingness!" Turns out my spider senses were spot on eventually. It wasn't a malformed ego thing, it was just an act to hide they were actually a scheming cow.

I suspect your friend is the former type (needs ego kibbles via people pleasing/self negation etc) not the latter. It does end up driving a person slightly up the wall. Because as I said, there's an energy to it that's off.

No matter how she was in the past, no matter what kind of person she is in her professional life, she is probably finding it difficult to navigate the world on her own, without her ex. Perhaps he propped her up socially and she now feels as though she's kind of just floating and it is causing anxiety. I imagine if there were decisions to be made about what to do in the past, while she wouldn't have deferred to her husband as such (I hope!), she may have consulted him and discussed the pros and cons or whatever. In the end though, it doesn't matter if this is true or not, you are not compatible for holidays together and that's perfectly ok. DP has just been on a trip with his sister and I don't think it will ever be happening again, even though they get along extremely well in small doses. It's often the little things that get on your nerves!

I'd go quiet too, if I received a tongue-lashing from my host.

Don’t feel bad. She’s either unaware of what she’s doing - in which case you did her a favour; or she is aware and is using this behaviour to show off, make you look bad, etc, in which case she needs a blunt reply, as you did.

Perhaps she’s not really thinking or mentally involved with what’s going on, so she’s coming out with these automatic pleasantries without thinking whether they’re appropriate, almost like she can’t help it? Like, with the ice cream, she might not have really taken in what you were saying, so kept repeating the same offer when prompted by the situation and location?

She maybe opens her mouth before engaging her brain. In future, just be firm, clear and blunt from the beginning.

I don’t know how 38% think you are unreasonable

this would boil my piss.

its SO inauthentic and insincere.
a kind of faux altruism?
and incredibly performative you all know (including her!!!) that she won’t actually buy a fucking ice cream, a toddler won’t eat a salad or pass out from malnourishment for want of a chip and she won’t NOT go on the sodding trip specifically planned FOR HER 🙄🙄🙄

she knows, you know… argh!!!!
just reading this grates on me so severely

Yep, similarly have experience of this with own mother. I can't stand women like this. Saying "I don't mind, happy to go with the flow" effectively puts the responsibility and work of organising on other people. It's like having another child almost.

The extreme self-sacrificing is annoying as fuck and shows a bit of a lack of self awareness and perception when other people have to repeatedly stop someone from doing something that would be inappropriate/bizarre.

I consider the self-depreciating things to be consciously/subconsciously manipulative, as convention dictates you're supposed to refute statements or offer reassurance. I've got no time for this.

38% are the annoying passive friends.

Oh god you're not being unreasonable, people like that drive me mad.

I would have snapped too.

It's all me, me, me ... look how much of a martyr I am. I'm sweet and #bekind.

Yes I'll take your child to practice every night even though it's 40 miles out my way and my child has to starve for 5 hours. Because I'm so humble and meek and kind.

FUCK OFF with your self-sacrificing shit! You see it on threads here all the time.

Whoops sorry, but these personality types get on my tits and I avoid them like the plague! A week with one would have driven me insane!

Well done not murdering her!

Some people here aren’t recognising that what she’s doing isn’t kindness. Constantly trying to foist something on someone when they don’t want it isn’t kindness. It’s putting your own desire to be generous above what the other person wants. Being a “don’t worry about little me” martyr isn’t kindness. She might be anxious or socially inept, but this behaviour isn’t pleasant for the people around her.

I had a relative who wasn’t very nice to his wife and kids, but was an extreme people pleaser in public. I think there was a performative element to it but that it was largely down to a distorted sense of what was the right way to behave, and an inability to interpret other people.

The ice cream charade is exactly what he would have done. In his mind, people say no because they don’t want to put you to any trouble or don’t want you to spend money on them. Telling him the child didn’t like ice cream wouldn’t work. He’s already convinced himself that the child does want an ice cream, and the only reasons you are saying no are that you don’t want to spend the money, or you don’t want him to spend the money, or for some reason you’re just depriving the child of treats. If anyone had said he doesn’t like ice cream, he would have thought you were lying. He would have secretly gone to the child behind your back and said “go on, you can have it”. In fact he probably would have bought one, thrust it into the child’s hand, and got annoyed if he didn’t eat it - because he would have felt rejected and his feelings of his own generosity would have been spoilt.

And yes, he did “I don’t mind where we go” too, then would get grumpy if he didn’t much like what the group decided on.

I doubt whether people like this will change, but I hear you OP, it isn’t fun being in their company- and as some of the replies here have shown, you’re the bad guy for being irritated with someone so “nice”!