Am I being mean about the "supersweet" friend?

[endlessnonsense]

I have a friend (well, she's equally a friend of me and DH, she and her XH used to be our neighbours). We now only see her a couple of times a year as we live far away now, and I wouldn't call her a really close friend. When we go on holiday, which is to a hot seaside place in Europe, we often get friends joining us as we have a place to stay and a boat, which is fun. This year she came.

I spent a lot of the time she was here in a state of suppressed anger at her, which caused me to resent her being here. This is because she turned out, on a several-days long time together, rather than the odd dinner we usually have, to be constantly pretending (or was she pretending?) to be very thoughtful and considerate, when I felt she was being just the opposite, in a passive aggressive way.

Everywhere we suggested going and everything we suggested doing, she deferred to us, "oh I'll do whatever you want, don't worry about me", never offering any suggestions of her own or seeming especially enthusiatic. OK, fair enough, we know the place and she doesn't. But it went much further. She was always faux putting herself down/being the martyr/putting on performative sweetness.

My son has special needs and she is always supersweet to him, but I told her multiple times during the holiday, no, he doesn't want an ice cream, he doesn't like it. It must have run into more than a dozen times she said, "oh darling, do you want an ice cream, oh please let me get him an ice cream, I'll pay"(as though I wasn't getting him the ice cream myself because of meanness). (Strangely, although she knows he does like chocolate, she never once offered to buy him a chocolate)

We planned a trip to a particular place she hadn't been, specifically to show it to her. Other friends were coming too, they are local and had been to the place many times, but we're coming along to be sociable with us and her. When she asked me how many people were coming and I mentioned it would be quite a few (in positive way, saying it would be a fun social event) she said, all sweetly, "well if you don't have room for me I'll just stay behind at the apartment, I don't mind at all". That really annoyed me, she knew the trip was arranged specifically for her!

Another (even more annoying) example, we were at a beach bar/restaurant with a bunch of people. Too many to get one table so we were split between 2 tables. Our food came marginally before the other table's (not more than 2 or 3 minutes). In that time she expressed concern that the toddler at the other table had not yet got her food, and actually got up to take her own plate of food to the toddler (it was a salad of some sort and the toddler was getting chips, so not even remotely the same thing). Me and DH had to physically get her to stop it and sit down before the toddler's mum saw.

She has always been very much a "oh don't worry about me, I'll just have a tap water" type of person, but on this holiday she really got my goat. She's left now and I am not sure if she noticed I was a bit snippy with her by the end. AIBU and a mean friend?

I was raised by one so I think I know the signs. They don’t all act like Donald Trump!

I understand that.

It just seems insane to declare this woman a narcissist when she hasn't done anything cruel or hurtful.

Not everyone is a narcissist, except on MN.

I can understand it might seem insane but believe me, covert narcissists are very subtle and so many things the OP described just scream of it to me. I’m not jumping on the narcissist bandwagon, me and my sister were pretty fucked up by our DM’s passive aggressive criticism as kids but she was so good at gaslighting us and playing the victim that we didn’t work it out until we were in our thirties. That was 20 years ago so it’s not a new concept to me and I know the signs!

This!

Also, we weren’t there and don’t know her so how on earth do any of us feel able to offer much to this post?
Also, you do sound a little bit mean about her, but as I say, none of us other than you were there so it doesn’t really matter what we think!

So the trick is, if it’s a perceived threat to recognise that and work to not people please, sit with the discomfort, sit with the fear that people may not like you and that you are enough as you are you don’t have to be doing things for people to be valuable you are valuable as just you.

I could be wrong @endlessnonsense but what made you annoyed is that you tried to protect her from her own mistakes and she didn't listen.

Let her make mistakes, let her buy that ice-cream and your son won't want it and let her feed the toddler, it's not your embarrassment, it's hers. Let her stay behind or eat bread for dinner.

Being a good host doesn't mean you need to protect her from her own behaviour and choices. You must have felt responsible for her like she was your kid.

Her behaviour with others (e.g. feeding the toddler) is no reflection on you, her own free choice.

behind closed doors in a relationship over years your self worth can be crushed and your just still breaking out of that state finding your feet with life choices and social balance.
she is probably genuinely good and going out of her comfort zone.
she’ll find her way and balance but best you don’t include her in your future plans as she’s building and you might knock her back unknowingly

@M75
I'm not going to tell her she can't come next year, she's already confirmed dates with me.

Then do what you want and stop complaining about her being too nice and too kind. You have an issue it seems with people living a good and kind version

I wasn't "complaining" exactly, I was acknowledging that I had felt annoyed with someone about some behaviours, and canvassing opinions on whether people thought I was being mean or not. There were diverse views and a very much split vote. Some did not agree with you that she was being "nice and kind", some did. It was an interesting discussion.

Of course, now that she has told me she is coming again next year (with her son) I am not going to tell her no you can't! As I said, I will be reflecting on my reactions before then.

Of course, now that she has told me she is coming again next year (with her son) I am not going to tell her no you can't! As I said, I will be reflecting on my reactions before then.

I think you sound very kind and patient, honestly! It’s kind of you to make plans again with her if you’ve found it hard work this year - you are obviously a good friend. (I know I’ve been too quick to say “never again” when someone has narked me off!)

Sounds like her son coming may change the dynamic as well. One thing I find with these sorts of situations, though - next time you’re going to be “waiting for it”. So have some prepared responses, which may diffuse the situation and get the point across. Eg - with the ice cream - “Sarah - I’m sure you’re meaning to be kind, but I must tell you once and for all that Michael doesn’t like ice cream. He has a problem with the texture (or whatever). So please don’t keep offering it to him”. That’s calm but direct. She can’t fail to get the message (about both the ice cream and the irritation), but it’s not mean or snippy. And if she keeps on, then she’s the one who looks rude/insensitive. (And if her son is there, he’s likely to say “Mum - stop it!”). Hopefully you’ll find it’s a different - and easier - dynamic next time.

@WimpoleHat thanks for that! I didn't really make plans, she and all our friends understand that they have an open invitation to join us any summer they want. I can't go excluding her now after all these years! I think you are right about her son changing things. He was a child last time he joined us with his parents, he is now an adult. I think it will make a difference.

Aah hope it goes well for you both and send her friendly links that may support her. You are kind too but fortunately are more aware

She is trying to fit in, to cause no fuss and be helpful to everyone, like any polite guest. I feel sad for her.

Sounds to me like she lost her confidence, maybe due too divorce, maybe not and is trying soooo hard to be a people pleaser but finding difficulty with new people as well is just overwhelming her.

I am a failed people pleaser, now I just try to go get along with others and then please myself, but its tricky if you are still finding yourself after an emotional breakup..

@washingupdone I have listened carefully to all the discussions on her possible reasons etc, and taken all on board, but I still don't see how her saying she would stay home from a trip planned with her in mind, or that she would have bread for supper when everyone else was enjoying a local delicacy which we were preparing, was "trying to fit in".

Sadly one of my DDs is a people pleaser and the behaviour OP describes is nothing like it. As I said earlier in the thread, it's obsequious - "ever so 'umble". It's an act. @endlessnonsense I think on some threads people are very keen to excuse poor behaviour - it's the opposite of victim blaming - not sure what tag would be the opposite of that? Twat excusing?

This happens with DH when we go away, ALL THE BLOODY TIME!!

He leaves me to organise everything, he’s of the ‘I don’t mind, I’m easy’ ‘up to you’, brigade! Left up to him, the times we’ve been on city trips, we’d just end up walking around like headless chickens, with no plans! I also feel like the event planner/co-ordinator extraordinaire! Pity I’m not on commission! 😜

This is my DH, too. I really resent it. We had a few European city holidays a few years ago. For each city I researched ‘ 10 best things to see in..’. Kept asking what he wanted to do, bought tickets online. He waited every day for the itinerary. He’d no idea.
PISSED me off big time when he would tell holiday stories about how we saw this monument, that museum, walked round such a place.
Final city was Prague. I planned NOTHING. We ended up wandering round a lot with him bumbling about saying ‘where are we going today?’ Gets me mad just thinking about it.
Thisyear there’s a big extended family weekend in a European city. I am not going.

Agreed. I've read most of the thread, and haven't changed my mind on that. I don't see what she would get out of doing it as an 'act' and find it really weird how many people on the thread see it as some manipulative move.

The examples about a DH / travel companion doing 'I don't mind' all the time aren't the same at all. That IS annoying as you are both in a new place and they are opting out of any research or work. The OP's friend was staying in a friend's house, of course she's going to defer on what activities to do.

Anyway, glad you sorted it out amicably OP, I'm sure it will be fine next year with her staying elsewhere and having her son with her.

No one, or almost no one, is suggesting it's an 'act' in the sense of someone consciously pretending to be 'sweet' the way someone might pretend to be a millionaire to defraud. It's an 'act' in the sense of someone socially anxious or maladroit, with poor self-esteem, attempting to appease or buy approval with services or 'being no trouble'. And often, as here, getting it wrong.

It's not at all unusual, as shown by this thread.

I absolutely agree with you @endlessnonsense this would drive me crackers, fair play if you didn't snap - I definitely would've.

I would too! I have a friend just like this- drives me nuts. If it wasn’t for the fact I grew up with her and know a lot of the reasons why she is like it, I’d have let the friendship peter out years ago.

we’re in group chats with mutual friends and I feel myself tense up if someone posts something about having a cold or missing a train…she ALWAYS has to have the most sympathetic and kind response. It’s actually annoying as it makes me feel like a shitty friend because I just write ‘get well soon’ and don’t offer to drop everything and run right there immediately to support the person with a cold ( who just needs a lemsip and is just being factual about their day)

I am also wondering what her marriage was like. If she was in a long marriage where she was always expected to put her own needs last and she couldn't ever assert herself without a lot of grief from her XH , she might have stopped mattering to herself and forgotten how to recognise her own wants. Hence the total apparent lack of opinions or desires of her own. Of course that could be nonsense and her XH was lovely, it just sounds like the kind of passiveness that comes from spending years never being able to assert yourself.

I've had phases where I've been like your friend - yes, I know it is annoying!
To be honest, it came from having really low self esteem and being anxious about pleasing others. I would also always offer to pay for things - I wanted to feel useful.

I grew up with a heavily critical mother who made me feel like I didn't deserve anything. I left home and gained confidence but then married a heavily critical man who became abusive. It was hard to even have a separate opinion to him - he would suppress it.

I'm not saying this has happened to your friend and she certainly sounds annoying but that might be some background to her behaviour.