Am I being mean about the "supersweet" friend?

[endlessnonsense]

I have a friend (well, she's equally a friend of me and DH, she and her XH used to be our neighbours). We now only see her a couple of times a year as we live far away now, and I wouldn't call her a really close friend. When we go on holiday, which is to a hot seaside place in Europe, we often get friends joining us as we have a place to stay and a boat, which is fun. This year she came.

I spent a lot of the time she was here in a state of suppressed anger at her, which caused me to resent her being here. This is because she turned out, on a several-days long time together, rather than the odd dinner we usually have, to be constantly pretending (or was she pretending?) to be very thoughtful and considerate, when I felt she was being just the opposite, in a passive aggressive way.

Everywhere we suggested going and everything we suggested doing, she deferred to us, "oh I'll do whatever you want, don't worry about me", never offering any suggestions of her own or seeming especially enthusiatic. OK, fair enough, we know the place and she doesn't. But it went much further. She was always faux putting herself down/being the martyr/putting on performative sweetness.

My son has special needs and she is always supersweet to him, but I told her multiple times during the holiday, no, he doesn't want an ice cream, he doesn't like it. It must have run into more than a dozen times she said, "oh darling, do you want an ice cream, oh please let me get him an ice cream, I'll pay"(as though I wasn't getting him the ice cream myself because of meanness). (Strangely, although she knows he does like chocolate, she never once offered to buy him a chocolate)

We planned a trip to a particular place she hadn't been, specifically to show it to her. Other friends were coming too, they are local and had been to the place many times, but we're coming along to be sociable with us and her. When she asked me how many people were coming and I mentioned it would be quite a few (in positive way, saying it would be a fun social event) she said, all sweetly, "well if you don't have room for me I'll just stay behind at the apartment, I don't mind at all". That really annoyed me, she knew the trip was arranged specifically for her!

Another (even more annoying) example, we were at a beach bar/restaurant with a bunch of people. Too many to get one table so we were split between 2 tables. Our food came marginally before the other table's (not more than 2 or 3 minutes). In that time she expressed concern that the toddler at the other table had not yet got her food, and actually got up to take her own plate of food to the toddler (it was a salad of some sort and the toddler was getting chips, so not even remotely the same thing). Me and DH had to physically get her to stop it and sit down before the toddler's mum saw.

She has always been very much a "oh don't worry about me, I'll just have a tap water" type of person, but on this holiday she really got my goat. She's left now and I am not sure if she noticed I was a bit snippy with her by the end. AIBU and a mean friend?

I think you've been told that yes, you are being mean by a fairly strong proportion of posters.

Nonetheless you've continued to slate her.

I suggest you accept you do not like this woman and find something else to occupy your mind, it's all a bit hateful and unpleasant, not good for the soul.

I just hope she doesn't stumble across this thread.

Whaaat? Insulting the toddler's parents by offering some food? Are you for real? Am in in the twilight zone? Such a weird and deliberately spiteful interpretation on her actions but 'you do you' as they say on here.

@endlessnonsense You and your crew sound highly sensitive and a bit precious to be honest. I think this woman is better of without you in her life as you seem to think it is ok to be slagging her off on the internet.

@Marinade

Its not “negative” in the sense of doing any real harm. Clearly this is not a person with malicious intent. None of the things here would have merited a telling off from me let alone ending the friendship.

But I think it Is calculated. These are the actions of someone who is not comfortable with herself (for possibly understandable reasons) and who is seeking to make herself as “invisible” and undemanding as possible and displaying her likeability to people. It’s not a crime. It’s something a lot of people do when they don’t feel good about themselves and it’s irritating.

I think people on this thread have been pretty clear about why they'd ascribe negative intent to these behaviours, to mention a few:
-Not listening / overstepping boundaries
-Creating unnecessary drama and complication
-Requiring others to do emotional labour on their behalf

I've been reading the Banksy thread as well today and a lot of the negative intention you're ascribing to posters on this thread is how you come across yourself (anger, vitriol, meanness I think are some things you've accused people here of).

I have a friend who has been my friend since day 1 of teacher training over 40 years ago. We have supported each other through ups and downs , she is brilliant to go for coffee with,to go shopping with.She's an absolutely lovely person. But I absolutely couldn't go on holiday with her. We both have camper vans. She likes to take her slow cooker with her and cook home cooked 'proper meals' every day. We want to eat out on holiday. If we shared the cooking ( we'll do Tues night, you do Wednesday) she would still take over on our day. She'd insist on doing everything, clearing up everything and washing up. I know she would be a total martyr because she does it with her visitors over Christmas and ends up exhausted and ill everytime. I have said to her that she would turn up at her own funeral , wait on everyone and be in the kitchen washing up. I am convinced she has Saviour Complex and it would be exhausting to be on holiday with the constant people pleasing. She suffered trauma in her childhood and has to look after everyone else because then everything is okay. I understand this but I couldn't cope with it in a holiday situation.

calculated: planned or contrived to accomplish a purpose. b. : deliberate, intended. a calculated attempt to deceive voters. calculatedly adverb.

So you think it is a deliberate and intentional act but without malice? To make herself seem likeable? So, again, my question is, does this warrant pages of the OP running her down in quite a vitriolic manner? She seems harmless to me: a bit clumsy and lacking in some awareness but nothing that justifies these mean spirited attacks on her character. Asking about the OP's son and ice cream. Jesus my mum does this all the time with offering endless cups of tea. Totally harmless who gets worked up about this kind of stuff? Weird.

Good to know you have been stalking my comments on other threads😂, digesting and analysing them and then spewing out your cod psychology interpretations. Get a hobby maybe? 😂

Not stalking, noticing. And yes, I think you could do with taking some of your own advice.

There's a Texan word for her: nicety. It's when people appear to be nice but they're being mean as alley cats.

Find a way to dump her. DH could simply be oblivious. Tell him she reckons he's crap at golf - or whatever he fancies himself at.

Not just noticing though - you felt compelled to offer your vacuous opinion in writing following on from some detailed observations and analysis. I must intrigue you in some way but you really should get a hobby instead of stalking a stranger on the internet.

One other thought @endlessnonsense you might be interested in reading about Karpman's drama triangle for understanding this dynamic and some of your reactions to it - victims need a persecutor and will often try to recruit other people in to that role.

The “I don’t mind” defenders seem to be spiralling - weird accusations of the lady being “hung drawn and quartered”. All op did was make one mildly snippy remark to her and ask afterwards if she was being out of order for feeling irked. Op doesn’t come across to me as “angry”

And I am a glass half empty person believe me, but did she really do such terrible things to warrant the vitriol being spouted against her? She seems like a well meaning person who is rather clumsy in her social gestures probably due to some anxiety?

How many times does a well meaning person need to be told NO to getting a child an ice cream because the child does not like it, does not eat it, does not want it before it sinks in? The added dose of guilt tripping to the parent with the I'll pay for it comment was, again, not well meaning. Both of those examples are not just clumsy they show a complete lack of respect for the child and the parent. Those actions were all about the friend, the child was merely a bit part player in the drama.

Calm the fuck down. Guilt tripping the parent by saying I'll pay for it? What is the matter with you? It can't be a gesture of thanks, no? It has to be a guilt trip? I stand by what I said - you and your interpretations are weirdly dark and imbued with a fundamental dislike of characters that you do not understand.

According to you

I said this to someone who made out her gestures were so terrible. It was not a literal statement that she should be hung drawn and quartered for goodness sake. It was a response to the disroproportionately negative and OTT way her behaviours have been framed by some of the folk on here

@endlessnonsense / haven’t read the whole thread but I think I’m with you. I’ve associated with people like your friend before.

It’s an insincere and manipulative ‘kindness’. Pretending to be a kitten when you’re a lion. It’s akin to that twee whisper singing that used to be in John Lewis Christmas adds. I just wanted to scream at the telly, stop the fake twee singing, we know you can sing like an adult woman FFS!

I was friendly with a local mum, she used to speak so sweetly, and be all ‘never mind me’ and smiley. But one day I caught the flicker of her giving me a dirty look. She regained her composure and went back to smiley very quickly, but I saw it. Later on I found out some things from a mutual friend that didn’t tally up with the put upon Disney Princess act either.

Your friend also didn’t get a powerful corporate role by being a doormat either. Trust your instincts.

So she offered to buy him I've cream twice? That's not exactly a huge deal. She probably forgot the second time.

@Josette77 the Op said the ice cream conversation was at least a dozen times. The reason the child doesn't have ice cream is due to sensory issues which are part and parcel of his SEN. The friend knows the child has SEN, has known the child for years why keep pushing it? It's not for the benefit of the child that is for sure.

Calm the fuck down. Guilt tripping the parent by saying I'll pay for it? What is the matter with you? It can't be a gesture of thanks, no? It has to be a guilt trip? I stand by what I said - you and your interpretations are weirdly dark and imbued with a fundamental dislike of characters that you do not understand.

The person who needed to calm down and wind her neck in was the friend. It is hardly a gesture of thanks when the reasons the child does not have ice cream have been clearly explained to the friend. Again the friend has known this child for years and knows they have SEN. I have fundamental dislike of people who behave like the friend did and I would have snapped at her way before the OP did.

It is very precious is it not? To get so wound up by someone offering an ice cream? Yes I can see it as a bit irritating but the extreme response here is not justified whatsoever in my opinion. This woman has been slated on this thread.

And I am quite certain it would have been seen by her as a gesture of thanks as opposed to the 'guilt trip' explanation you offered.

The repeated ice cream suggestion thing was rude.

Trying to give her salad to a random toddler whose table’s food hadn’t yet arrived was v odd!

Not ‘precious’ to become annoyed with someone asking your DC if they wanted ice cream a dozen times!

Well she was almost rugby tackled to the ground before she got anywhere near said toddler with the plate so all was good 😂

In your opinion.