Am I being mean about the "supersweet" friend?

[endlessnonsense]

I have a friend (well, she's equally a friend of me and DH, she and her XH used to be our neighbours). We now only see her a couple of times a year as we live far away now, and I wouldn't call her a really close friend. When we go on holiday, which is to a hot seaside place in Europe, we often get friends joining us as we have a place to stay and a boat, which is fun. This year she came.

I spent a lot of the time she was here in a state of suppressed anger at her, which caused me to resent her being here. This is because she turned out, on a several-days long time together, rather than the odd dinner we usually have, to be constantly pretending (or was she pretending?) to be very thoughtful and considerate, when I felt she was being just the opposite, in a passive aggressive way.

Everywhere we suggested going and everything we suggested doing, she deferred to us, "oh I'll do whatever you want, don't worry about me", never offering any suggestions of her own or seeming especially enthusiatic. OK, fair enough, we know the place and she doesn't. But it went much further. She was always faux putting herself down/being the martyr/putting on performative sweetness.

My son has special needs and she is always supersweet to him, but I told her multiple times during the holiday, no, he doesn't want an ice cream, he doesn't like it. It must have run into more than a dozen times she said, "oh darling, do you want an ice cream, oh please let me get him an ice cream, I'll pay"(as though I wasn't getting him the ice cream myself because of meanness). (Strangely, although she knows he does like chocolate, she never once offered to buy him a chocolate)

We planned a trip to a particular place she hadn't been, specifically to show it to her. Other friends were coming too, they are local and had been to the place many times, but we're coming along to be sociable with us and her. When she asked me how many people were coming and I mentioned it would be quite a few (in positive way, saying it would be a fun social event) she said, all sweetly, "well if you don't have room for me I'll just stay behind at the apartment, I don't mind at all". That really annoyed me, she knew the trip was arranged specifically for her!

Another (even more annoying) example, we were at a beach bar/restaurant with a bunch of people. Too many to get one table so we were split between 2 tables. Our food came marginally before the other table's (not more than 2 or 3 minutes). In that time she expressed concern that the toddler at the other table had not yet got her food, and actually got up to take her own plate of food to the toddler (it was a salad of some sort and the toddler was getting chips, so not even remotely the same thing). Me and DH had to physically get her to stop it and sit down before the toddler's mum saw.

She has always been very much a "oh don't worry about me, I'll just have a tap water" type of person, but on this holiday she really got my goat. She's left now and I am not sure if she noticed I was a bit snippy with her by the end. AIBU and a mean friend?

Note you glossed over the fact the ice cream conversation happed on at least a dozen occasions @Marinade . So in your world asking the same thing 12 times and being given the same answer and reason for rejecting the offer is something nice and to be seen as a gesture of thanks? The offer wasn't being rejected because the OP didn't want to pay for it and the friend knew that so the throwing in of the I'll pay for it was an unnecessary dig. How could it be a gesture of thanks knowing that the child has sensory issues regarding ice cream, that is more like a punishment than a nice thing to do.

'Mean as an alley cat'? For asking if a kid wants an icecream and generally being a bit socially clumsy?

This thread has been an eye-opener. I had no idea people had such scathing opinions about someone acting in a pretty mild way.

I said it might have been irritating, what more do you want, blood? My mum does similar, I am used to people like this. I just don't get my knickers in a twist about them and manage to tune them out. Maybe you should try it some time? Would definitely lower your blood pressure.

My intention was to make a constructive observation and I can see that wasn't appropriate in this context. I'd appreciate it if you could refrain from insulting me.

Blood pressure is fine thanks. Would you consider it just irritating to daily offer a child a food they were allergic to when you had been told they were allergic to it? What is the difference between that and continually offering a child with SEN a food he doesn't tolerate due to sensory issues? How is that being kind?

You refer to me as mean, angry and vitriolic but I am the one insulting you? Are you for real?

If you are going to look at my comments on other threads and come up with ill informed and nasty conclusions about my character then I will have something to say about it in response. In what way was your observation constructive? I am really interested in knowing this?

I don't think he was allergic that is not what the OP said, she said he did not like ice cream. You seem to be conflating two different concepts here. Ice cream is so varied I can honestly see that she thought he may like to try something different. I mean a magnum is vastly different to a cloudy lemonade ice lolly isnt it?

I don't know I was not there I am giving my viewpoint and interpretation on it like you are with your's. We need to agree to disagree.

The OP clearly stated that her child cannot tolerate ice cream due to sensory issues related to his SEN that should have been the end of the conversation.

I am well aware that the OP did not mention allergies I was asking you why you think it is any different to continually offer something to a child with SEN and sensory issues than a child with allergies, both children have perfectly valid reasons for avoiding the food offered, or do you think children with SEN and sensory issues are just being difficult or fussy? The conversation was about ice cream not ice lollies you really are stretching to try and make out the friend was doing a good and noble thing they weren't the good and noble thing to have done would have been to listen to and respect the parent the first time.

She doesn't sound terrible, you don't sound terrible. I can understand why you are irritated, but she sounds well meaning, and conditioned not to value herself.

You have three options:

Accept her.

Help her change counterproductive habits. I've suggested some methods up thread. There is a risk you will upset her if you aren't careful. But, it might boost her confidence and self-esteem.

Move on.

All of these choices are fine, ethical and reasonable.

does this warrant pages of the OP running her down in quite a vitriolic manner?

Probably not no. But how many Mumsnet threads are “warranted”? AIBU is a discussion forum about modern manners and ethics (among other things). None of this is life or death but it’s interesting in what it tells you about social mores.

Part of the reason I suspect that people come onto these boards to moan about friends and family is that there are things they can’t say to a person’s face.

I must admit I do not know anything about sensory issues with food in children. But you cannot agree that an allergy is comparable to a sensory issue. The allergy could trigger a dangerous biological response so this is not the same thing as a sensory reaction?

Yes I can see it is irritating I said this but I don't believe that this makes her the awful person that she is being framed. And ice cream / lollies - really?? if you do a search for one in an online supermarket the other one comes up you know? Its not like a brussel sprout is it? Talk about being unnecessarily pedantic.

It is annoying when somebody is so passive that you wonder why they have even come along.

In this case I’m reading into it that she’s been through a hard time with the divorce and found herself surrounded by a lot of confident couples. She just wanted to fit in and do her best to show gratitude and perhaps you felt a bit threatened by having a single woman there who your husband seems to get on with OK and didn’t see a problem with her behaviour. Could there be anything in that?

Either way probably best to just cool things if she’s upsetting you that much.

I must admit I do not know anything about sensory issues with food in children. But you cannot agree that an allergy is comparable to a sensory issue. The allergy could trigger a dangerous biological response so this is not the same thing as a sensory reaction?

As you have no idea of SEN and sensory issues relating to it then perhaps you and the friend in this case would do well to listen to the parent of the child and accept what they say the first time and not take it upon yourself to try and be some kind of saviour trying to suggest alternatives - you don't think the parent has already tried this? The parents don't need nor want that kind of help, what they want and need is for you and the friend in this instance is to respect them and the child, listen and accept what they have been told. Bear in mind the child's SEN and related issues are no surprise to this friend said friend having known the child and parents for years so no excuse for ignorance.

Well I have never tried to give food to any child that they don't want so you can take me out of the equation. To begin with the OP said the son did not like the ice cream I did not really register the sensory issues as she only came up with those aftwards so maybe the friend thought the same? My main focus was the ridiculous intervention with the toddler salad and I am still baffled by the level of anger directed towards the friend over a rather innocuous if rather clumsy gesture. I know you want to pursue this issue with the ice cream but I think we need to draw a line under this now as I did not give this much headspace. There really is no more ground to cover on this.

I don't feel threatened by her in any way. And she wasn't surrounded by couples. At least half the group was single people. Most divorced or going through a divorce.

Makes perfect sense to me but I have been on that sort of holiday, and I am also not determined to nit-pick or invent ulterior motives, unlike some posters!

Both things sound fucking irritating and would absolutely grind my gears (and even in my young naive 'ooh i don't mind, whatevers easiest for you' phase I would not have done either thing!).

I am still baffled by the level of anger directed towards the friend over a rather innocuous if rather clumsy gesture.

There was no anger as the OP has explained multiple times it was sheer embarrassment the type that makes you cringe inside out. It wasn't a clumsy gesture it was an utterly ridiculous, unwarranted gesture. The Op and her husband saved the friend from making and absolute fool of herself in front of the others.

But they are being fake and manipulitive so you don't act in a certain way towards them.

We don't have to virtue signal and diagnose everyone with "trauma" to express the frustration peoples insincerity causes us

It contributed to the overall sense of anger she feels towards the friend, why else would she post this and then ask whether she is being reasonable. She is furious with the friend, whether she admits it or not. Why are you acting as her mouthpiece?

In your own lovely words, she is a 'wet blanket' so I am sure you did not feel threatened by her in any way. You pretty much despise her why don't you just admit it?

Why are you acting as the mouthpiece of the friend @Marinade ? The lengths you have gone to to gloss over the behaviour are incredible, you've not read the Op's posts properly and still carped on before finally admitting you knew nothing about SEN which didn't actually come as a surprise.

I've read them plenty. She didn't even mention the sensory issue with food to begin with so again - do calm down - you are starting to sound like a stuck record with your 'carping'.

Well maybe it comes down to misinterpreting tone in text. I can see that I've overstepped and I am sorry for that. But no, I'll not be explaining myself any further to you.

Well dont offer unsolicited opinions in future and couch them as 'constructive criticism'. No loss to me if you can't explain - and no surprise to me either.

Can. Won't. And I've not used the word criticism, that's you.