To think this is fucking crazy

[itstheendoftheworldasweknowitnow]

We’re en route to a holiday rental in France. I wasn’t sure if the pool was shared or not between other guests so emailed the owner to ask. This is his reply - which I put in to google translate
Could you tell me if sharing the swimming pool with us who occupy the ground floor bothers you and for what reason? Recently we refused the rental because the wife and the two young daughters were veiled; are you english or muslim? We do not want you to make the trip and see yourself refused access to our property for reasons of displaying religious beliefs which are very resented by the neighborhood.

Fuck Fuck Fuck
What the hell do I do?
I am not a Muslim.
I am also not a racist.

This is what I think it is.

My muslim friend wouldn’t be able to use a shared pool with another man present. I think he is saying that he has been in this situation. Where he was told that previous guests couldn’t use the pool if it was shared with him due to them needing to be covered in the presence of another man. And that doesn’t work for him as he wants to share the pool.

Given the clear language barrier, I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that he is racist.

Given the clear language barrier, I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that he is racist.

Oh dear. After posting the Google translate version of the message, the OP followed this up by posting the message in the original French. Numerous French speakers on the thread then provided accurate translations of the message.

There's no language barrier, and there's no ambiguity as to whether or not the message is racist.

I'm going to bed now. Peace and love to all. I hope the OP has a lovely holiday regardless of everything!

Reading the message in French does come across as rather prejudiced. He's clearly saying people who are visibly Muslim are not welcome and would be refused entry, complete with saying that they would not be welcome by the neighbours. That's not the same as saying the communal/shared status of the pool is non-negotiable. He also says he has previously refused entry to guests because they were 'veiled' (which is used to refer to hijab) and asks if the OP is English or Muslim. That all comes across as pretty prejudiced, really.

Enjoy your holiday OP, but don’t forget to piss in the pool on the last day 👍

Nope, it is not mere secularism (laicite). Only Muslims were specified. No other religion, religious apparel or symbols were mentioned.

You are right, he is saying that if the OP is Muslim and wearing a headscarf then they wouldn’t be welcome. But I do think he is relating it to pool use as he links it with the question as to why sharing a pool would be an issue.

I’m not saying that the man isn’t bigoted in his views. All I’m saying is that I wouldn’t rush to any conclusions and cancel a holiday reservation based on a brief exchange via google translate.

It looks like a misunderstanding. Just go, and enjoy.

What, just because she might have asked if it was a shared pool, the owner has then assumed she might break the law (and upset the neighbours) because she might wear a burka when she arrives? Surely if it's illegal, she would be arrested before she even got there!! 😃
Sounds like the owner might be ever so slightly paranoid! 😅

This.

He is allowed to want to keep using his own pool and needs to know if that will offend his guests. And so some guests would be inappropriate. He is not racist, necessarily.
He is entitled to share his pool with people who will not mind sharing.

He is also informing and alerting Muslim guests about the neighbourhood not being welcoming and tolerant. Will they be relaxed and enjoy a holiday there in a suburb like that?

How's that finding purpose thing going?

It isn’t illegal to refuse to rent your property to someone. It’s not a demand people can make of you ffs. And inability to use your own shared pool is reasonable grounds anyway.

It is illegal if you are renting your property through a company operating in the UK if it’s based on a protected characteristic, and the host has already agreed to take the booking (with the money).

It's discrimination to refuse on the basis of a protected characteristic (these also exist in France but using the English terminology for reading convenience here). Religion is one such characteristic. In this case, the man has indicated that he has refused on the basis of religion before and would do so again. That's very different from saying "The pool is shared and that's non-negotiable".

If I go to a country I follow their law. Did you mention the hijab at all?

If you advertise your services on a website based in England, Wales, or Scotland, you follow their law. Presumably OP and family have arrived there now and can enjoy their holiday.

This has been troubling me... I can understand men getting circumised for medical reasons, but scientific?

I had assumed that scientists were endeavouring to resolve problems with climate change and rising sea levels, but it seems, from what you say, that some of them are just mucking about with their foreskins.😳

"Oh look! Barry has made a sleeveless, rollneck sweater for one of the lab rats." 🐀

If the gite owner is living in a particularly, let’s say, awkward commune then I doubt he gives a stuff about the law in England, Scotland and Wales…

I’ll reiterate a point I made a while back, if you have never lived in a French village you can’t begin to imagine how sensitive local politics can be and just how much influence the mayor can have.

The gite owner might be a card carrying member of one of the more liberal parties but if the mayor is RN then if the gite owner want’s to stay in business he is going to tread very carefully.

I know it’s not “right” from a UK POV but that can be the real politik.

Those poor rats. Given the personal hygiene of some men, vivisection might be preferable.

Only in public pools though, you can let it all hang out in shorts in your private villa pool.

Absolutely. Everyone knows the essential checklist of questions to ask AirBNB owners is:

1. Do you have WiFi?
2. Does the TV have English channels, and
3. Are you a racist twat

Well, the logical thing is to forward the contents of the letter - plus a careful translation - to the legal department of Booking.com, asking whether or not they are putting themselves whether or not, they're putting themselves in a difficult position by advertising this property.

It actually seems pretty complicated, in terms of how much leeway someone who rents out a holiday property in France has to decide who he rents to. (Do they have the freedom to make a personal decision about who will be a good fit? Can they operate on the basis that some lettings have proved difficult in the past - ie. something like a 'no stag parties clause. Does the information about the use of the swimming pool need to be worded with additional clarity?)

And do UK laws about discrimination 'override' French laws, when a letting is advertised in the UK.

Getting all this sorted out might actually be a lot more useful then planning to leave a 'The landlord is vile' review about a property you've not actually visited

I suspect most people from the UK don't understand this. They imagine French villages as being rather like English ones - not so, the political set-up is quite different. It's one reason I am not keen on visiting France.

Wow, embarrassed for you actually. On this of all threads you think that’s a valid point?
Don't you like it when racist business owners are publicly shamed?

This was my initial assumption too.

Totally agree