To think this is fucking crazy

[itstheendoftheworldasweknowitnow]

We’re en route to a holiday rental in France. I wasn’t sure if the pool was shared or not between other guests so emailed the owner to ask. This is his reply - which I put in to google translate
Could you tell me if sharing the swimming pool with us who occupy the ground floor bothers you and for what reason? Recently we refused the rental because the wife and the two young daughters were veiled; are you english or muslim? We do not want you to make the trip and see yourself refused access to our property for reasons of displaying religious beliefs which are very resented by the neighborhood.

Fuck Fuck Fuck
What the hell do I do?
I am not a Muslim.
I am also not a racist.

If she were to say the Israeli government were responsible it would be more reasonable.

It's not racist to dislike the prohibitions of a religion.

You can leave a stinking review once you've had your holiday and are safely back home, OP. Meanwhile I entirely understand how the idea of spending your money and possibly having to rub shoulders during your precious holiday time with a racist has left you with a bad taste in your mouth.

I can't understand all those saying 'So what?' Surely most of us have friends or work colleagues or neighbours from different ethnic backgrounds — some of them Muslim? If this host has a problem with any of them because of their religion or ethnicity then I have an issue with the host. Shrugging and saying 'so what, forget it' as so many have here is condoning racism.

What do you mean by 'it's the law' I wonder? Because no, refusing to rent a holiday flat to Muslim women who wear hijab is not 'the law' in France. 🙄Women staying on private property can legally wear whatever the hell they like.

Seriously, I despair, there is so much misinformation on this thread.

It's discrimination to refuse to provide a service to someone on the basis of disliking something about their religion, though.

France has a burka ban, so there's that.

I'm not sure what your point is?

Extremism from Muslim groups in France or elsewhere is neither the fault of Jews nor the Israeli government.

The holiday is in France, where there is a burka ban, and the owner refuses service to burka wearing families.

This

Honestly I don't know why I'm still bothering to correct the misinformation, but ... no, you are wrong on two counts.

• First, France has a ban on wearing burqas in public. There is no problem with wearing a burqa in a holiday flat.
• Second, the owner states that he refuses service to women who are 'voilées'. In French, this does not mean women wearing burqas; this means women wearing headscarves. So he is refusing service to all Muslim women, not just those in burqas.

If the owner believed that it was illegal for him to rent his holiday flat to Muslim women, he presumably would have said so. Instead, he said that he doesn't rent to Muslims because it makes the neighbours uncomfortable.

RACISM.

There's no reference to burkas in the messages. The owner is indicating that he refused service to women who were 'veiled', which is a term used in France to describe hijab (not burkas). He then asked if the OP was Muslim as 'visible' signs of this would lead to being refused entry. He has also expressed a view that the OP could be English or Muslim but not both, which is wrong in itself. That's different from having something in booking information like "Due to France's laws around face coverings and full body-covering swimwear in public spaces, and areas of this property being classed as public spaces, this property may not be suitable for anyone who needs or chooses to cover their face in public or who needs or chooses to wear full body-covering swimwear. We apologise for any inconvenience."

By indicating that he would not provide a service on the basis of religion, the man does appear to be discriminating against that religion. The extent to which the booking agency and others might consider that unacceptable or even illegal would be up to them to determine. Racial discrimination and religious discrimination are still offences in France (even if several major pieces of legislation do in themselves discriminate against some minority groups).

Crossposted with Scirocco. Exactly!

Absolutely this!
Thank you for clarifying again.
Just to add one more thing, if it was about the Law why would he say "not welcome in this neighbourhood" - that can only be interpreted one way, plain and simple racist.

Where is the Qur’an does it say women must wear the burqa, a veil or even a hijab?

Businesses are free to refuse entry to anyone, let alone on their private property, as long as they are not discriminating under the Equality Act. I assume that France’s has similar laws?

It may be religious discrimination, but it is not racism.

MUSLIMS ARE NOT A RACE.

Embarrassing.

Well, if that is your opinion, I give up. We don't share the same view of the world.

It's true that Islam is a religion not a race, but anti-Muslim discourse is absolutely saturated with racism, both in France and in the UK.

Just in case his views weren't crystal clear, this guy asked the OP to clarify whether she was Muslim OR English. I guess that would also be religious discrimination and not racism according to you?

it Is absolutely NOT illegal to wear the hijab in France! I wear hijab and have been multiple times. In some settings in schools and certain jobs they ban it sadly and covering the face is not allowed. But I think any Muslim would be rejected by this disgusting racist. I would personally report them for racism to the platform they use. I feel I have definitely been rejected in the past from air b&b etc based on my name and I can’t stand that kind of discrimination. ‘It would be resented in our neighbourhood’. F**ing racist piece of shit of an owner.

In the UK it would most definitely be illegal
to refuse a service to someone because they wore a hijab.

Maybe he hates the English too :o)

France has legislation that says a person should not be discriminated against because of their religion. So by refusing service on the basis of a person's religion, the man could be breaking the law.

Even if he weren't technically breaking a law, it would still be discriminatory to refuse something to someone because of their religion. If you or I refused to do something for someone because they belonged to a particular faith, when we would do it if they didn't belong to that faith, that would be discrimination on the basis of religion, whether or not it was reported or treated as a legal offence.

With regards the question of what is in the Qur'an about covering, there are verses in the Qur'an and accounts within the hadith that discuss clothing and conduct in different settings. A recurring theme is about modesty and respect for others, but there's a huge spectrum of views on what that means in practice and in modern societies. There are also lots of Muslim women and men who identify as Muslim but might not want or feel in a position to follow every bit of 'best practice ' guidance - just like in any religion.

This thread is certainly illuminating.

I have an uneasy feeling that the posters on this thread who don't think that this French chap is racist are the kind of people who don't think that Reform UK is a racist party either. 😥

With all due respect, debate between those people and me isn't going to be fruitful. Our world views, as I said, are too different.