Unsure if I am overreacting or if this is irresponsible?

[Nerrr78]

My DD 13 stayed at her friends house the other day. Friends mother allowed them to go down to local beach (10 minutes walk) in their short pjs to watch sunrise at 4.30am on their own. DD told me the next day and I was upset that this had happened and I knew nothing about it. What if something had happened to them, I was asleep, thinking my DD was asleep, safe at her friends home.

DD said friends mother had said they could go the night before as long as they didn't wake her up.

How do I approach this without causing too much conflict?

Ah yes, wearing knickers under their pj's would definitely signal to any wannabe rapists lurking on the beach at 0430 that they were not to be touched.

I think that you need to discuss this with your daughter. She is 13 and should know what her rules are at home.

TBH - it sounds lovely. But, if it doesnt sit right with you then you should have a chat with your daughter as she could have contacted you the night before and asked you.

But you're setting the foundation. If by 15/16 what you've learned about your parents is that they're going to sponge all your fun, tell you off and block your attempts to be independent then you're not well equipped for lots of reasons. You haven't been given the chance to problem solve for yourself so you're not necessarily going to have the thinking skills to do this. And you don't have a trustful relationship with your parents so you feel like your only option is to do thinks sneakily and possibly dangerously

The police, after realising that very few abductors would have the super-human strength needed to easily subdue and lift two teenagers into a vehicle, are looking at drowning being more likely.

Katie Murray explained, "Despite growing up in a coastal area with a good awareness of tides and the dangers of the sea, and despite it being the coldest time of the day, it's highly possible that they both decided to get into the sea in their pyjamas. They were probably looking forward to walking 10 minutes home, dripping wet and freezing. It's because they have a track record of being so monumentally stupid that I decided to let them go in the first place."

Uh this isn't a genuine issue re child safety just a different set of ideas. If she raises it it will wreck the friendship is it worth this, no.

I live near a beautiful beach and for several years I used to walk my dog there around 5am. You might assume that the place is deserted at that time of day but in the summer that's the time the oddballs come out. The strange lone men who arrive late at night with a bottle of spirits and a sleeping bag and shout and throw rocks. The gangs of older teens who sit all night round driftwood fires getting out of their heads. The lone male dog walkers who never say a word, never make eye contact and are never seen at other times of day. The rough campers who set up tent when it's dark and head off by 6am. The local guy who swims naked at dawn and shouts obscenities towards anyone who looks at him.

I don’t think you are overreacting OP, but I don’t think friend’s mum is in the wrong either. Legally, children can be left home alone at 12 although many parents wouldn’t. Personally, I wouldn’t feel comfortable with it but it doesn’t mean it’s immoral.

I think a lot depends on the area you live in. DD (14) stayed with her friend a couple of weeks ago and she told me they went out around 4.30 for a walk - it’s not something I’d allow in the town where we live but the friend lives in a lovely village and it always feels extremely safe there. They said the only people around were a couple of dog walkers and people out for a run and it was beautiful and peaceful.

Part of letting children go to others houses is that you have to accept within reason different parenting styles etc. If you are unable to do this then don't let them go, there are plenty of parents who don't allow sleepovers etc. You don't have a right to dictate what happens at other peoples houses. Had they been plied with alcohol or similar yes but allowing children out is not in the same league. Its a massive thing on tik tok to get photos at sunrise etc

Do you have a source for that? I'm interested in whether this only applies to the 9% of rapes where the attacker is unknown to the victim, or all rapes?

The closest I can find is this analysis which indicates that the majority of stranger rapes happen in city centres with the most common location being the victims home, and that most occur at night, anywhere between 8pm and 8am.

openaccess.city.ac.uk/id/eprint/29439/1/s10610-022-09535-5.pdf

I would not want my 13 year old out (in pyjamas or otherwise) without an adult at 4.30am.

I feel like it's a very good thing your daughter felt safe enough to be honest with you. I would treat your daughter with respect saying "thank you for feeling you can talk to me about it. I would love for you to have these experiences. Here are some things that bothers me about you guys going alone. If you want to do these experiences next time, let's have a chat to see how we can make it work so you can enjoy these activities safely?"

The police, after realising that very few abductors would have the super-human strength needed to easily subdue and lift two teenagers into a vehicle, are looking at drowning being more likely.

You don't need superhuman strength to abduct two 13-year-olds. Maybe you have two or three abductors. But actually all you need is a cute dog and the promise of a hot chocolate back in your camper van. How do I know? Because only this past weekend I met a couple of young girls on a Pembrokeshire beach after having an early dip while walking my friend's cute dog. They looked after the dog for me while I went for a swim. When I came out of the sea I offered them a hot chocolate as a reward for dog care and they came back to my van. It was only while I was towelling off and changing in the van while they heated the milk for the chocolate, that I thought how dodgy it could look to their parents. I'm a middle-aged woman. Would they have felt as relaxed around a nice middle class, middle-aged man and his dog? I really hope not.

Mum code is that if your child is sleeping over thuagreement is that the child is in your house at nighttime imo

I’d be fine with it. A 13yo is far more likely to be sexually assaulted at school than on a 10min walk to a beach to watch the sun rise with a mate.

It really isn’t risky. I think many are more concerned with appearances than anything.

Children of that age instinctively know the safety levels of a middle aged woman and middle aged man are very different. And let's pretend you were a predator. You got them into your van, hot chocolate on the hob. Do you think that 2 of them could not easily have overpowered you had the situation got nasty?

It is one of those things; Many girls do things at this age even alone, in all countries, and nothing happens. And sometimes the worst happen in the most public of places in plain daylight

Of course, they might have bumped into one of those conscientious rapists you hear so much about. That sort of rapist wouldn’t dream of attacking someone wearing knickers and trousers because they might be ‘cared for’.

Spoiler alert: I was sexually assaulted at a similar age whilst ‘properly dressed’.

Yes, I doubt whether two of them could have overpowered me. Particularly if I'd had malice in mind — a knife, a plan. My van has central locking and I had the key. And I had a dog with me, too: no guarantee the dog wouldn't have protected me if they'd turned on me. s

I've suddenly found myself thinking of Ghislaine Maxwell. She coerced much older, much more independent teens. Sarah Everard got into Wayne Cousins car because he showed her ID. I know how grown-up I was at 13 and yet how compliant. I do think parents who feel sure their 'worldly' 13-year-olds wouldn't do anything foolish need a reality check.

At 16 I had finished school, moved out of home and had a relationship and job.

At 13 I was still in school, had just got my periods and still spending my time playing dress up trying to find my own awkward style while moping around in a teen huff and getting sad over falling out with my best at school because 'he said she said something'.

Wildly different, it's probably the one spot in life where 3 years make a seriously crazy difference in growth.

But that was grooming over several months to persuade those girls to willingly go to a very private location where they were abused. None of them were snatched up into a van on the beach.

"The only people" You can guarantee that can you? Not weirdos, druggies, drunks or just your common or garden violent, predatory male. 🙄

Of course she can.

A while ago my DD had a friend round who is a year younger than her so 13, and I let them walk into town 10 minutes away for an hour because my DD likes to do that. The mum was horrified and asked me not to let her DD do that again. I wasn't offended, just said of course and I let my DD know.

(I did think she should tell her DD she wasn't allowed and I didn't entirely appreciate the tone of the message, but time on text is hard and in general it was fine.)

I meant tone, not time, obviously

There is a slightly worrying sense in this thread where a lot of the responsibility for what another person's child is and isn't allowed to do is being placed on the hosting parents. Yes, fine for children who are of primary age, but at secondary age, you really should have brought your child up to know by now what are and aren't your hard boundaries, and to know when they need to consult with you. These are two 13 year old girls. No, they aren't super mature yet but equally, they aren't babies either. They're at the end of Y8 and have spent 2 years at secondary school by this point. They are old enough to be able to speak to their parents about what they can and can't do. The most I would expect the hosting parent to do is suggest the guest should check with their parents. I certainly wouldn't be babying a 13-year old to the extent that I would be checking with their parent myself.