Does 'gentle parenting' work ?

[flowermo]

Let me start by saying that I am not an expert at parenting styles.

I know bits and bobs from reading articles, books, talking to other mums/ grandmas and a lot of reading on Mumsnet.

I understand there are a lot of misconceptions about gentle parenting. However let me summarise my understanding- it's about firm boundaries, but doesn't promote shouting and hitting etc and generally using fear to get your kids to behave. It encourages understanding a child's development phases and what can and cannot be expected of them at any particular stage. Helping them understand and validate feelings, negative and positive ones etc.

Another style of parenting, perhaps the authoritarian style or ' traditional ' style that was used a lot in our parents generation, is a lot more shouty. Perhaps even hitting. Children are scolded for having tantrums and punished. Parents rule with fear of shouting / hitting / scolding. Kids are often scared of their parents. I remember growing up in this kind of household, as did all of my friends really.

I would say I use something in between the two styles with my children. But more on the gentler side. I don't hit but sometimes I do shout for example. I try to understand the stage of development they're at and what I can reasonably expect from their behaviour. I try to use consequences like taking toys away or denying them treats they wanted. I don't think my kids are afraid of me. I don't think I'm a particularly good parent. Or that I'm doing things right. They misbehave and I'm often stressed out. They're still small, 2 and 4 and I'm just trying to find my way.

Anyway what I'm trying to say is. I've been speaking to some other mums of slightly older kids who are also teachers. They really think that the gentle parenting approach is hurting kids and kids are out of control more than they were in the past. More authoritarian methods work better apparently and kids should be scared of their parents and should be worried about getting in trouble ( not violence ) at home, if they mess around at school. Teachers are leaving the profession because kids are so badly behaved and parents have no control over their kids.

What do you think about this? Is gentle parenting working ? Is it true that kids are so badly behaved now ? ( doesn't every generation say that about the new generation? ).

One thing I've noticed is that if I discipline my kids in public, by slightly raising my voice, people do stare. I never see any parents doing that nowadays. It was normal to get a telling off if you messed around in public when I was a child.

I'm not trying to be divisive or judge either side of the debate. I don't know what I'm doing or whether it's right. I guess I spend most of my time thinking I should be firmer, then feeling abusive when I do shout at them. I'm also lost. I really don't want to piss anyone off. So please be kind.

Gentle Parenting (ie S O-S) appears to mean no consequences.
As in, natural consequences may take place, like, if you smash up your bedroom, your bedroom is then a mess. But logical, or illogical consequences are not generally used, like, you smash up your bedroom so you have to tidy it up, or you smash your bedroom up so you are now grounded etc.

This lack of consequences is , I think, irritating and unhelpful for children. At school there are consequences, and many of them are not logical! Children can't forever feel the world revolves solely around them and do need to understand that their actions impact upon others.

I’m no psychologist, but this could be because she doesn’t know ‘the rules’. IME children (much like dogs!) thrive when they know what is expected of them and others. It helps them feel safe.

I think you can be 'gentle' to a certain extent whilst enforcing boundaries

I don't shout - I do give a warning with a consequence, and follow up on it. When younger when there was a hitting stage that was explained once calmly that it was unacceptable, and that absolutely all future instances would be a removal of a toy and not allowed to play for 5 minutes. It happened twice after and a toy was removed for 1 day and he was placed on the sofa and I didn't talk to/play with him for 5 minutes.

For now I am fortunate as not giving attention seems to be absolute torture so that definitely worked on mine when he was younger. I will often count to 10 if not being heard and I need something like a coat on or shoes on etc to go out.. I'm yet to work out what happens when I reach 10 if I'm honest, he's always rushed and done it before I get to 10... I must work that out as I'm sure one day he will push his luck with that 🤣 wasn't until I wrote this that I realised I have no idea what my consequence is if I get to 10!

I'm not really anti shouting but my son is massively noise sensitive so even if I raise my voice slightly the reaction is intense, therefore I am mindful of that

The trouble is, you might think your kids are just fine, but other people might find them a nightmare.

The ‘permissive’ parents I know have kids that don’t really work in the real world. Their entitlement and freedoms don’t take into account anyone else’s feelings or rights. It might all feel lovely and free to you, but your kids might be a massive PITA.

It cracks me up when I hear parents out in public saying “One… two… three… four…” and everyone knows that absolutely sweet FA happens when they get to ten.

I think I’d probably view myself as a gentle parent. As a single parent I sometimes think it’s more difficult. My DDs are teens now so we’re in a very different developmental stage but it’s definitely paying dividends. They’re respectful, understand boundaries and consequences for overstepping them. I’ve always felt that they need to know who’s the captain of the ship for their own security. That sometimes I’m going to take decisions they may not like, and that’s my job.

From what I have seen, gentle parenting absolutely does not work.

Gentle parenting creates vile, entitled, nasty tyrants. Despicable, self obsessed human beings.

Various friends of mine have used gentle parenting and the way their kids treat them and talk to them is truly shocking and appalling. There is no respect for the parent and the child becomes a bully of the highest order.

my parenting style was firm but loving. Largely no nonsense but gave quite a lot of freedom within reason. I now have a really good relationship with my kids. They are not scared of me, but know there are boundaries they cannot push and most importantly of all, they treat me with respect.

it may work on a child who is a really lovely gentle soul (I know one of them) and this child has turned into a really lovely person - but they are an exceptional character and I have never met anyone else like that. But all the others have turned out truly awful.

@Wantitalltogoaway I have no idea how the magic of counting works on mine but it does! Even if needing to leave the park or a friends house, he will literally run for it to not reach 10.. so it is a magical trick up my sleeve, but I really must work out what happens if we reach 10 sometime 🤣

I'm not sure I'd say shouting is really officially part of any parenting type. It's what happens when parents are at the end of their tether, generally.

A few people are shouty in general, so there it's about character.

I also think traditional parenting is not that different than what the OP described as gentle parenting.

The main difference might be the use of smacking or spanking which gentle parenting disallows, I tend to think that this is less important than many believe, so long as it's done a) in a way that is not arbitrarily, b) in a non angry manner and c) within social norms.

Which is to say, in places where there is a social norm of spanking, kids don't seem to find it particularly traumatic unless it is out of control or actually physically damaging or extremely frequent. (There is some research that supports this, I've not come to that conclusion on my own.

My inclusion is that it's largely an irrelevance. The main thing is to be careful, caring, have clear boundaries, self-discipline, expectations that are not too high or too low, and to love your kids and have them know you love them.

ANyway - my main issues with what people call gentle parenting is that it is often very influenced by attachment parenting, which I think has some real flaws in it's underlying belief system, and those flaws tend to create issues around boundaries and expectations.

I try to be a gentle parent. I would never ever smack. I don’t think this is ok at all. I do sometimes shout but I really wish I didn’t and I’m working on this all the time. I always apologise for raising my voice and discuss what caused it and that my children deserve respect as much as I do. We have a great relationship but I’m far from perfect. It’s a work in progress.

A brief excursion out in public will demonstrate that gentle parenting does not work with most children.

I’ve skimmed through and Im a huge believer in parenting based on personality.

At 2 and 4 they are small but boundaries are important and following through on your word is important and highlighting poor behaviour and explaining why is important. Telling your children off if they step out of line is important and I don’t think children should fear anyone but they should have a sense of right and wrong and moral.

Parenting is going wrong because we are noticing that children do not have a sense of right or wrong because many children are either rewarded (subconsciously) by their parents who decide to do absolutely nothing when their child acts up. Or for those parents that are too strict and drive their children away they are being raised by friends and social media.

I also think children need to see that life is life. I take my child shopping with me, expect her to behave a certain way. I take her to friend houses, I’ve taken her to appropriate events etc. many parents are letting their children lead their lives as opposed to bringing the children into their lives. I feel that might raise entitled children too.

When they are younger our role is to show them how to behave and guide them. As their personality comes through, as parents we should adopt our style based on that. Forget the labels

For me it’s a bit early to say if it works - mine is 5 and relatively speaking well behaved but by no means I think at this stage is fair to say whether it’s working or not. I think the more traditional approach & the way things were done in the 80s/90s has it benefits-as a kid I believe made me more resilient and independent; the gentle approach also has some benefits for younger kids, not so sure about older kids/ young adults. There is a good spot somewhere between the two approaches but I don’t know what it looks like quite yet.

I’m really not convinced by ‘gentle’ parenting as a default. I think parenting that responds to the ever changing and developing needs for an individual child is best. Sometimes that might meet the definition of gentle parenting, other times it won’t.

I think this phrase sums it up!

Of course it will work... but only if its actually done properly.

PIcking the bits you like - not shouting for example... and not the bits you don't like - maintaining boundaries... that will never work.

It's things like 'we need to put shoes on now - you can do that here, or in the car, I don't mind', rather than just yelling 'shoes on now... I SAID NOW' etc.

There's a lot of 'illusion of choice', like this which little kids prefer on the whole to either 'don't do that' or 'we're doing this because I said so'.

One of the major things people don't understand is setting boundaries and providing consequences they can actually follow through/maintain.

It's no good for example; expecting a kid who bolts not to do that, then taking them to a huge open, busy space where they are likely to be triggered to run and will be very hard to catch, without reins on. You're setting them up to fail, and making it impossible to prevent the unwanted behaviour or provide immediate consequences.

Yes, it is hard work to ensure you can always maintain those boundaries or follow through on consequences but no method of raising/training/managing someone elses behaviour will work if you don't.

I wonder how he does in school, if he can't take no for an answer. This is what causes so many behaviour issues, parents not parenting. I had a 5 year old throwing a chair at me in class because I said it's time to stop colouring.

Absolutely true. We are here to guide them, teach them and in some cases make the decisions for them. Imagine explaining gently to a 5 or 6 year old that a full bag of skittles will probably make you sick but it's his choice if he wants to eat it or not.Of course he is going to eat it. This is not one of the lessons he needs to learn practically. As a parent, you make sure you keep them healthy and that means making decisions.

I'm surprised time out is not part of gentle parenting.

My DD very rarely had time out. She was a naturally sensible girl, who didn't get angry, more upset and responded well to discussing things

My ds on the other end....he was a calm child, until he exploded when he wasn't happy about something. Nothing helped with the tantrums but to let him calm down. Time out is exactly what he needed to let the anger out, without any other distraction. Once it did, we could then talk about it. He had then an amazing capacity at analysing his own behaviour. He grew up to be the most gentle kid and elected as embassador for kids to go to him when they had an issue with another child.

Timeouts were exactly what he needed to allow the adrenalin to reduce back to normal levels.

I do wonder how this translates between children.

The I understand you have big feelings, but you don’t hit your brother, let’s talk about how you could’ve dealt with that better’

When they get hit by another kid in school do they say ‘I understand you have big feeling, but you do not hit me, let’s talk about how you could’ve managed that better’

Is that really how you want your kid to respond?

Then shouting ‘Do not hit me’ will get the teachers attention and dealt with by an adult as opposed to the child feeling like they have to.

Madness.

@WiddlinDiddlin putting shoes on in the car doesn’t work . Child needs to get to the car. Are you properly to carry the child? Let them get wet feet? Some rules are sensible. ‘ Shoes need to be on before we go.’

I don't claim to be a true gentle parenter anyways but if my kids hit, they get a stern telling off.

'NO HITTING ! I will not let you hit ! ' take the child away from the situation to calm down. Once calm, have an age appropriate chat, why we don't hit.

Let them get wet feet?

Natural consequence of not putting your shoes on surely?

Not every day rains …… !

Sometimes in the morning, my two year old doesn't want to put his shoes on. He'll just repeatedly take them off, which makes us late.

He usually takes them off in the car anyway. So often I just carry him to the car with no shoes and put the shoes on when I get him out of the car to go to nursery.

My husband says it's very wrong and I should force to put his shoes on when he's in the house. I do force to put them on, but the 5th time he's taken them off while being in the middle of a massive tantrum - I am late for stuff. Even if I start earlier, he'll just take them off. There's literally no point in this battle. It's getting a bit better recently, on its own. I don't know what will happen when school starts up again in September.

But yeah, he just starts having a massive tantrum if I keep putting his shoes on.

3 of my 4 were pretty gently parented.
One required much firmer boundaries including occasional yelling when he was young. Pretty sure he has ADHD.

I don't believe in punishment really, though they all know when they have done wrong and I believe in natural consequences (eg, you are careless with your PC you had for your 13th birthday and spill juice on it when you were told not to have drinks while at the computer. Consequence, you have to live with no computer and save up birthday and Christmas money to replace it; don't do your homework? You'll have a detention. Don't revise? You will do poorly in that exam).

They are all pretty responsible teens who know how to conduct themselves. They also know that on the very rare occasions that I shout, that means something.

I think there's a huge difference between guiding children gently and being overly permissive or acting like your child can never be wrong.

They also know that on the very rare occasions that I shout, that means something

Absolutely!!

Mine were also told off for bad behaviours - hitting, biting, snatching - confiscated toys of used as weapons.

We have talks in the car before we went in anywhere about boundries and behaviour when there. What the consequences would be - leaving, not invited next time - I used to do this of kids behaved badly leaving a party - no invited best time - they soon stopped that!

When leaving a friends house I tel them iw as counting - always backwards and zero is zero - right 3 2 - never got to 1

My friend asked what happens on zero and I told her honestly - I’ve never told them and we’ve never go there.