AIBU to point people to an article on the BBC website about the gender row on boxing at the Olympics?

[GenderRow]

This article on the BBC website is the most informative explanation of DSD I have read:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crlr8gp813ko.amp

Before reading this, I was certain that Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting had male bodies. Having read the BBC article, I can see that it is by no means definite.
I feel very sorry for both of these 2 boxers that the International Olympic Committee have failed to develop proper testing procedures that would determine whether having a DSD would give an unfair advantage in the female boxing category. The IOC should have investigated this issue properly for Khelif and Yu-ting before they were allowed to compete in the Olympics. It is such a shame that these boxers have the humiliation of us all discussing their intimate medical details.

Where's the evidence that you're female?

The article quotes several experts on the matter.
Let's face it, if individuals across the world are born with organs that do not 100% fit either the male or female criteria, to the point they are assigned the "wrong" one, then sex cannot be fully binary. Rare, ok that is true, but not binary.
We need more science research on each gene, the biology, the testing on individuals. Then we will see more doctors agreeing on the matter, as there are more facts and less opinion.
It does not change the fact that sports are classified on a binary system and that unfair advantage, or danger to a group, needs to be addressed regarding competition.

😂😂😂

Stop fawning over him.

I'm so angry about all aspects of this. Why should it have to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that athletes with male chromosomes, male levels of testosterone, and androgen sensitivity (to be clear, the only atypical aspect here is the appearance of the external genitalia) have an advantage over female athletes? Isn't this the fundamental basis for the existence of women's sports?

How can we be in a position where athletes are banned from some events, but not others. Banned from 800m but not from punching someone in the face.

This whole thing has only been allowed to run for this long because ultimately, most people seem to think women's sports are a boring, slow, weak, pointless side note to the "real" sports (aka men's sports). IOC should just put their money where their mouth is and do away with the women's events altogether.

hey @MushMonster have you heard about sex chromosomes and how they work? 🤣

Sex is binary. It is not determined by the size and shape of genitals.

Let's face it, if individuals across the world are born with organs that do not 100% fit either the male or female criteria, to the point they are assigned the "wrong" one, then sex cannot be fully binary. Rare, ok that is true, but not binary.

But secondary sex organs are not what define our biological sex.

There is no third sex. Every single human is either male or female.

I can't trust the BBC reporting on this. Aside from that issue I feel the IOC has totally mismanaged this and exposed the athletes to unnecessary and intrusive media speculation. The IOC should have properly tested beforehand particularly when there was any question about the possibility of a male entering woman's sport.

This whole issue is Russian manipulation designed to divide people and cause chaos, so I'm not entertaining it in any form, and pity the people who have been sucked into it either way.

Let's face it, if individuals across the world are born with organs that do not 100% fit either the male or female criteria, to the point they are assigned the "wrong" one, then sex cannot be fully binary

Yes it can, as has already been explained to you. In simple terms, just because some humans are born with one leg, doesn’t mean we aren’t a bipedal species.

No. The whole issue is the IOC's unfair position of taking passport sex rather than biological sex as the eligibility criteria.

The IOC could have avoided all of this controversy. Shame on them.

Ah yes I’m sure Putin cares deeply about these two boxers who beat a Russian boxer once years ago 😂

These three men won the 800m gold, silver and bronze at the Rio Olympics. Women were told we were being racist for pointing out they look like men. Then it was confirmed that they all have 46 XY 5ARD and did, in fact go through male puberty. Women had to fight to change the rules to exclude these men from running.

But instead of learning from their mistakes, the IOC has made things even worse for women by allowing males into the boxing ring.

This. They're male. They shouldn't be there.

These male athletes have been tested. The IBA tests (two for each athlete) showed these athletes both had XY chromosomes. However, the IBA then went forward and judged that these athletes also had male physical advantage over female athletes.

These male athletes have been known they were male athletes since last year when they were counselled that they were male athletes. However, it is highly likely they knew from puberty.

These male athletes have chosen to compete at the IOC knowing explicitly that they have XY chromosomes and have physical advantages over female competitors.

They chose to do this. They chose to punch female boxers, women, in the face (and one even in the back of the head) for their own need to win. They, ultimately, made the choice to put female boxers at massively increased risk. And to put their presence in the category into discussions around the world.

It is not going to work to remove the responsibility for these athlete's actions when they had this information.

We are a binary sex. Most of the individuals are infertile, therefore their DSD is an anomaly not proof of a 3rd sex. Some people are born deaf or blind, that doesn’t mean we as a species aren’t typically born with sight and hearing.

For me, along with presumably the majority of women on here, birthing a child is fairly strong evidence 🙄

It feels like you're trying to argue that women literally don't exist in any meaningful way?

Yep. And if this isn't a statistical anomaly, the corollary should also be true? But there aren't any 'men' with DSD qualifying for the men's events? Would there be anyone brave enough to claim to be a man and get beaten up by another man in a boxing match?

The BBC article has been written by the "gender and identity" correspondent. Not the science correspondent.

Looks much more like IOC manipulation to me.

Seriously? You could not more clearly show you don’t have a case!

But being as you asked, I went through female puberty, had periods, got pregnant and birthed two children who I breastfed. I am currently going through perimenopause.

We are not the category for men who do not fit the norm.

This should be repeated on every page of this thread, and every other post on this topic.

This is exactly the point. Women aren’t support animals, and we aren’t the ‘non-men’ category.

@MNHQ it possible to pin this to the top of threads about this topic?

laughing at this.

Is this like Montgomery's 'what would you do if your mother failed a gender eligibility test'? Logic is not a strong suit for some such as Montgomery. But I laugh when I see this asked on MUMSnet.

They're both cis women and the way the situation has been abused the GC lobby is absolutely disgusting. And a sign of how close to the far right GC campaigning has got.
I was actually fairly GC until the last fortnight and this has pushed me right back towards the centre.

No, have you?