AIBU to point people to an article on the BBC website about the gender row on boxing at the Olympics?

[GenderRow]

This article on the BBC website is the most informative explanation of DSD I have read:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crlr8gp813ko.amp

Before reading this, I was certain that Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting had male bodies. Having read the BBC article, I can see that it is by no means definite.
I feel very sorry for both of these 2 boxers that the International Olympic Committee have failed to develop proper testing procedures that would determine whether having a DSD would give an unfair advantage in the female boxing category. The IOC should have investigated this issue properly for Khelif and Yu-ting before they were allowed to compete in the Olympics. It is such a shame that these boxers have the humiliation of us all discussing their intimate medical details.

"While there are legitimate safety & fairness concerns in gender-segregated sports, doubling-down on gender-segregation isn't the way to resolve them."

However, supporting and campaigning for SEX segregated sports is legitimate way to resolves direct and indirect discrimination against female people by allowing any male person with male pubertal advantage into the category of sports protected for female people.

It seems to be you that is conflating sex and gender on this thread.

Any male who has male pubertal advantage, because they are male with the ability to process testosterone at all, or even produce testosterone, needs to be excluded from female sports categories regardless of medical condition or gender identity.

This is about male people. It really is not about 'gender'.

Why are you trying to silence women's voices on this?

And as far as I know, Fatima never failed a sex test at all if I recollect. Everything that was directed at Fatima was based on illegitimate discrimination based on sex. The two situations are not comparable unless you wish to leverage Fatima into the discussion to use emotional reasoning to convince others.

I think this can be explained by the fact that Swyer comes with very high risk of osteopenia and osteoporosis due to oestrogen deficiency. It's not really compatible with elite competitive sports, particularly not a contact sport like boxing.

Op never came back because this thread was only ever intending to spread fake news.

If anyone would like more stats, this website tracks how many times BOYS have beaten adult female Olympians.

It is incredibly important to know who is male.

Someone with Swyers would be likely to struggle to compete at the female level in most sports due to complete absence of testosterone/ and inability to respond to testosterone.

boysvswomen.com/#/

We're moving towards a new binary situation imo.

"Males/men" will be those who are genetically XY, possess typically male genitalia, have normal male endocrinology and present/identify as men.

"Females/women" will be everyone else.

Why so many are happy for this is a mystery to me.

I believe they are male, this photo certainly indicates Khelif is male.

It's already happening. The Green Party refer to men and non-men. It's so offensive.

Fair enough @BeyondOlympicLevelProcrastinator (and love the username) and I agree the BBC will currently say black is white (and men are women) to keep the broadcase rights. I wonder if that fear stops after the closing ceremony or whether the TWAW stance of the IOC means it keeps going between competitions? I'd love to see the mainstream media - as one - have a zillion exposes on this even after the events.

But they have male chromosomes so have an advantage ….

@GenderRow .... was your opening post faux naivete or an attempt to water the seedlings of doubt?

Can you see that eligibility rules that fail to restrict the female category to biological females and female range testosterone create space for competitors to exploit any competitive advantage that can be exploited within those guidelines, and often, outside of the guidelines, until those exploitations are exposed and called to account.

Can you also see that there is a limited appetite in the wider sporting world to fight for fairness in the female category and the risks to safety of female competitors is an unacceptable inevitable consequence of this apathy?

There is PLENTY of evidence about DSDs. It has been tested in court and clear unambiguous rules laid down by Athletics, Cycling, Swimming and Rugby. It is a lie, that the science is unclear, that there is not enough evidence. It is a lie that hurts every women in sport, whether they can see it or not.

Failure to protect the female category in clear unambiguous guidelines has left the Olympics wide open to manipulation. It started with the removal of sex verification in 1999 and has been a growing but well know problem since 2009.

These are not the only biological males in the Olympics... I wonder if we will ever know how many there really are.

Bring back the bad old days of sex verification and this question would go away.

There would be other questions Olympic history is littered with controversy, questions, accusations of cheating and corruption ... that is unlikely to go away.... but at least the category of womens' sport would be safer and fairer.

Not sure "GenderRow" will be back.

This is the other thing that irritates me. People making out that we are just seeing a more “built up” woman and assuming she’s male. Because we’re idiots. No, we no what female athletes look like. We know they often do look like petite women. But we know a man when we see one. Look at the Williams sisters for example. Their training and condition long from when they were tiny means their physique couldn’t be further from mine. But they still undeniably look like women. Act like women. Because they are women. We are not stupid.

sorry, typo’s…

No, we know what female athletes look like. We know they often do not look like petite women. But we know a man when we see one.

This is good.

The BBC article has been corrected to remove the words '...and not exclusively binary'.

https://x.com/JournalismSEEN/status/1822931549613912411?t=NNJf76ipsXz6uw25obum6w&s=19

Thanks catus

Good

The BBC need pulling up more and more
Fed up if their anti woman stance and pro men/trans

They're blokes.

No way would a male Muslim coach hoist a female-bodied person on his shoulders like Khelif's did.

Cheek swab chromosome testing needs to be introduced for all competition which uses sex based categories. The intrusion is minimal.

Ideally this will be done early on in a sportsperson's career. Away from media speculation.

The male category has its part to play. Not all male competitors will conform to male stereotypes. That's life, get over it. So what if the person you are competing against prefers to present in a gender neutral or feminine gendered way. The only thing you need to worry about is who does best in the competition.

The only people who fight against this are the ones who have something to lose: kudos, prestige, money. These will be coaches, doctors suppressing male testosterone, sporting bodies. And yes, the sportspeople currently enjoying male advantage within the female category.

There's no good reason why we don't have answers. The IOC could have established the facts before allowing these two boxers to compete.

They didn't do that because if they said athletes with a Y chromosome and male testosterone levels shouldn't be competing in women's sport, they would have to ban all trans women from competing in women's sport too.

They didn't do it because they don't want to. Because women don't matter to them.