AIBU to point people to an article on the BBC website about the gender row on boxing at the Olympics?

[GenderRow]

This article on the BBC website is the most informative explanation of DSD I have read:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crlr8gp813ko.amp

Before reading this, I was certain that Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting had male bodies. Having read the BBC article, I can see that it is by no means definite.
I feel very sorry for both of these 2 boxers that the International Olympic Committee have failed to develop proper testing procedures that would determine whether having a DSD would give an unfair advantage in the female boxing category. The IOC should have investigated this issue properly for Khelif and Yu-ting before they were allowed to compete in the Olympics. It is such a shame that these boxers have the humiliation of us all discussing their intimate medical details.

Good man. He clearly wasn’t deliberately cheating, and he did the right thing.

Why has the IOC, and much of the world, become so misogynistic that women are now expected to accept men beating them up and taking their medals?

Agreed.
I also don't buy into the narrative of 'oh how awful/humiliating for the two boxers blah blah blah'
They bloody well knew exactly what they were getting into as they'd been banned previously. They were trying it on hoping that no one would kick up a fuss. The bottom line is, they don't care what we all think.

Why not just a simple cheek swab to check for sex. That would quickly show xx or xy, so why aren't the IOC testing? Why didn't the boxers appeal their bans to CAS? Was that because it would have made the results public?

What an utterly disingenuous article and shame on the BBC whose track record in this area is appalling.

It quotes Emma Hilton and others at length over various DSDs but completely fails to mention her conclusion on the DSD these athletes almost certainly have, 46 XY 5ARD.

By focusing on many other DSDs they intend to obfuscate the facts. These athletes, together with CS, are men. They shouldn't be competing in women's sport. If the IOC, or anyone else, has concerns about the IBA, then just conduct another sex test. It's a cheek swab. Non-invasive and takes seconds.

From the tweet.....

The IBA mentioned high testosterone, yet their statement in the test procedure say that testosterone testing was not undertaken.
(An entirely reasonable interpretation is that T testing wasn’t part of the sex screen, but T levels in these athletes is known via other screens like anti-doping. Someone - a journalist maybe - should ask them. Rushing to a formal endocrine profile as part of a sex screen is not a particularly obvious thing to do, and it may be that this is what the IBA meant.)

With an XY karyotype and high testosterone (from which the presence of testes can be strongly - and I mean strongly - inferred), these athletes have, so far, the male-typical biology that is relevant in sport.

No one needs to be a developmental biologist or Sherlock Holmes to reach a logical conclusion from the information we have available.

These two videos may be helpful for people who need more information

Explanation on DSDs and sports.

Here is an informative Media briefing from Sex Matters including Developmental Biologist Professor/Dr Emma Hilton, plus the real life experience of competing with people with testosterone derived advantages, Olympians Mara Yamauchi and Sharron Davies.

Dr Hilton is speaking about DSDs and sports in general. The Gold Report on YouTube ‘The BBC is lying'.

Richard Dawkins, one of the worlds leading experts disagrees. Why should we all accept this one experts opinion when so many others disagree?

I've been making the same point on several threads. I'm male and would take it further by saying it's incumbent on men to stop othering men with DSDs as un-men. In almost all cases, it's societies refusing to accept as male people with XY chromosomes who are born with ambiguous external genitals. It's a form of misogyny protecting a concept of maleness based on visible penis size.

Unfortunately, the BBC’s biased stance on gender issues is now losing the BBC its long-standing reputation for honest reporting.

Neil deGrasse Tyson also has stated there are only two sexes.

DSDs are incredibly rare but some bad faith ideologues have been spreading misinformation for years. One whopping great lie was that being 'intersex' is as common as having red hair.

I think the problem is that so much doubt has been raised over the IBA tests, the status of the two boxers is unclear. There's reports that they're definitely biologically male, there's reports that they're definitely biologically female. Reports that the IBA tests were valid, and reports that they were politically manipulated.

What should have happened is, prior to the Olympics starting, the IOC should have performed sex tests on any athlete where there's a question over eligibility. Hell, on all athletes entering the women's category, if they don't want to single people out... like they used to.

Now we're in the situation where either two women are having cruel remarks about their appearance and being accused of cheating, and the other contenders are left wondering if they've been unfairly denied a fair chance, or a situation where two men are guaranteed podium places and the female contenders have actually been denied a fair chance.

All of this could have been avoided - or subsequently clarified - by the IOC performing a test that's a bit more scientific than looking at their passports...

(At the same time, they should probably also implement a "no rapists or murderers" rule for athletes...)

IK is either a man with DSD or a man without DSD. The XY, the male level testosterone, the fact he has a body which has clearly gone through male puberty all points to this.

Where is your evidence this person is female? ( a passport and being raised as female does not make one female.).

A shame in a number of ways, would've been good to see them in the ring together as opponents and actually fighting another man, not sure how keen they'd be though.......

The BBC is incredibly biased and spreads misinformation on this. Several times I've heard news reporters flat out lying about the facts of the case. Never actually reading from IBA statements (as well as IOC) which would be what they'd do if they had any journalistic integrity.

They are not a credible news source.

And is your neck as wide as your head? Do you have an Adam’s apple? Do you have a Y chromosome? Does everything about your face and body scream male?

Yes. It doesn't penetrate through yet. People still peddle nonsense that these people are women they are not.

Also when I was a tomboy growing up I never once went to a school swimming event wearing just a pair of swimming trunks and no top.

I think I would have been expelled, or at least sent for counselling.

Which often involves including women with PCOS in the stats. PCOS is an endocrine disorder not a DSD.

Yes the BBC never trust anything they say anymore.

The term 'cis female' has been bandied around quite a bit. It is remarkable.

I posted this the other day and got no coherent answer, just a doubling down that being 'registered at birth' is all that is needed. From someone who prides themselves on their academic achievements and 'feminism'. They could not address the issue nor did they seem even to understand the issue. That is how entrenched they are in ideological belief.

**

How can someone be ‘cis’ if they were incorrectly categorised at birth? This now has moved the term ‘cis woman’ to now not mean ‘female’ and has become simply as meaningless as the term ‘woman’.

What word can be used to describe an adult who has the sex female as being unique from all other groups?

So now we have :

Woman - anyone who describes themselves as a woman

leading to the next label

Transwoman - anyone who describes themselves as a transwoman

Cis woman - female people who describe themselves of women AND male people who were incorrectly categorised at birth as female.

We are told that we must accept the term cis woman. It is used in some academic papers after all.

So this move now has just made all of those supposedly peer reviewed papers and studies indecipherable. And if they are about female people’s medical issues, they are potentially false or at the best misleading.

Plus we now have males who have a transgender identity also calling themselves female.

Language is imperative to discuss the issues around the protection of the rights of female people, including sports. And yet we are to be demonised and vilified for using clear language calling people who are the genotype of XY.

This type of rhetoric leaves female people with no language that uniquely refers to themselves.

The actual number of people born with DSDs is around 0.02%.

So just how did we end up in a situation where two boxers in the women's category have a DSD?

Their agenda is sew seeds of doubt about the binary nature of sex. There has been quite a big push to exploit DSD's for leverage to get men into women's sports but I never thought people would actually fall for it.

Going to leave this here

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1821167422721630473?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

The advantage is obvious and it should be for athletes who have an obvious advantage to prove they don't.

Wonder if they'd use weight on the birth certificate/ passport as evidence of eligibility for the weight categories?

The fact they have evidence based weight categories but self id for sex is male supremacism. On steroids (that id as naturally high levels)

Why is it that so many 'women' with DSDs end up qualifying to compete in women's events in the Olympics?

It really is quite the statistical anomaly.

Because they are actually cheating men with Y Chromosomes who have gone through male puberty 😒 sad day for real women