F*cking hate the f*cking 11+ system

[StressyStressHead]

DS1 passed and is at a grammar. DS2 is due to sit it in September and prep is not going well.

DS1 had a tutor in yr 5 just for an hour a week and was very enthusiastic as he enjoys that sort of thing. DS2 didn’t want a tutor (fine - i always said I would never force anything on either child) so has been doing prep with me. Just an hour a week. Sometimes sessions go well - often, they don’t. He often has meltdowns if he gets something wrong, and wants to give up and it is so bloody hard to deal with.

ImI don’t care whether my kids go to a grammar or not but the issue is, the non-grammars in our area are not great so if you want a chance at a good school, you’ve no choice but to do the test.

Without sounding like an arse, for those who are bound to make comments like “children shouldn’t need tutoring to pass the test” “why would you put your child under that much pressure”, please understand that:

a) despite what the local authorities will tell you, the 11+ tests kids on lots of things they have NOT learnt in school so to expect them to sit it with no prep is unrealistic

b) competition is ridiculous - kids from miles outside our area sit the test and apply for our local grammars. They have MASSIVE amounts of tutoring which pushes up the pass mark (there’s no set pass mark, it’s based on how the cohort performs that year)

c) believe me, I am doing my utmost not to pressure him but he needs to do some practice - he’s worried all his friends will pass and go to grammar without him - and he’s probably right as so many of them are doing summer 11+ courses and hours of tuition

d) some friends who don’t live in a grammar area have said to me that if he doesn’t want to do the prep, just to tell him fine, that’s his decision but it’s down to him if he ends up at a rubbish school - which seems bloody harsh for a 10 year old!!

I keep telling him this does not define him, it simply gives him a wider choice of schools but I know he’ll feel a failure if he doesn’t pass.

Not sure what my AIBU is, just need to vent.

Do you want him in a school that will push him academically in a way he can’t cope? I understand your concerns but if he isn’t suited to it then why make him go?

The first 2 years of teaching in both types of school would be very similar, because every child needs a basic education. Virtually everything I learned in years 7 and 8 was useful in life. It is in years 9 onwards, that the curriculum becomes too academic for a lot of practical kids and it puts them off and they just drop out.

How is that good for anyone?

I know some schools will be better than others, but none should be crap. Those ones should be improved. And I think in most cases, there is better chance of that happeneing if everyone just goes to their closest school. The whole community benefits from a more equal footing for all kids.

I don't think brainly kids should be teaching the other kids. I believe in streaming. I just think that if you start developing at, say 12/13, you should have that ability to move upstream.

My child is at the local comp. I'm happy with it. My child is achieving to their current ability. I don't have any problems I want other people to solve, thank you.

By the way, if anyone out there is ambitious for their child but can't afford a tutor (£30-50 an hour), my child had a tutor for a specific subject the last 6 months and still did poorly in it. I can tell you that is my child's fault, not the tutor's, not the teacher's, not the school's. I accept some responsibility for it too, I need to instill some work/study ethic in my child.

I am not proposing closing any schools, I'd just change the intake policy.

Oh don't worry, they will target grammar schools. Reeves has clearly said she wants to abolish all selective education and instead wants every child in comprehensive schools.

Have you considered the group sessions?

They're less intense and good for confidence. Mine went to this because I couldn't afford the individual. But it actually worked out better.

If every child just goes to their closest school then you still get selection via postcode. Wealthy areas will have an intake of wealthy pupils, deprived areas will have intake of pupils from deprived homes. The wealthy areas will have a premium on house prices which ensures that less well off families are priced out. Engaged and motiavated parents will then fight tooth and nail to get their kids into the schools with like minded parents.
Remember, most places aren't like London where you can have wealth and poverty living cheek by jowl. In most areas outside of London you get more clearly defined rich Vs poor areas.

This desire for a level playing field will never happen because ultimately some people have more money than others and will use that to buy advantage for their children.

@twistyizzy "
Oh don't worry, they will target grammar schools. Reeves has clearly said she wants to abolish all selective education and instead wants every child in comprehensive schools"

Has she? I missed that. Very pleased to hear it. Not sure why she was announcing it though when it's not her brief.....

If that’s true it’s very interesting. Sounds like this government will be more like Wilson’s than Blair’s.

Except for the continuation of the New Labour addiction to spin, ‘creative’ language and rampant political dishonesty.

Was pre-election. Will try to find the statement/comment

I thought it was clear that this government isn't a Blairite New Labour government. Well apart from the spin and soundbites!

I really feel for your son.

He knows he isn't as clever as his brother because he knows he's struggling with the prep.

He knows he might not get into the same good school as his brother, and thinks you'll be disappointed - I know you haven't said this to him, but that's how he will feel.

He knows he could be going to a 'rubbish school' and is probably a bit frightened. You haven't told him you don't like them but he knows you don't, otherwise you wouldn't be so keen on him doing the prep. The stakes must feel very high to him, small wonder he is feeling stress that leads to dysregulation.

He'll also be imagining failing and watching some of his friends talking about passing, and their new school.

I don't really know what you could have done differently. It is unfortunate that you live in an 11+ area with two children of different academic ability. I think I would have moved as soon as I realised that my second child wasn't 11+ calibre. I think now, for his mental health, you need to ease off on the practice, start talking very positively about the local comps, and identify the least worst option.

"I would like to see more children educated at comprehensive schools and that means fewer children being educated at grammar and private schools. I feel this strongly [about this] as you can never have a true system of comprehensive education whilst you still have selection. I have always and will always oppose more selection in our education system "

^^ from 2018. No they haven't come out yet saying that they want to abolish all grammars but it would fit in with Reeves and Raynor's prior statements and beliefs. Private schools is the starting point but I don't believe it will end there.
I will certainly laugh if all the champagne socialists on MN, who send their kids to grammar and are telling us private parents to suck it up wrt VAT, end up falling foul of this government through abolition or limitation of grammar schools.

You have good intentions, OP. There is no doubt about that.

But what if he doesn't go to a decent school? What if that competitive grammar school is simply not the right place and the right time for him?

I feel you and your son both operate out of fear, which is never a good motivator in the long term. Even if he passes the test, he still has to make it in the school itself and if it's already making him this unhappy now, then perhaps it's not for him.

What if he went to one of the not so great schools? Would that mean he has no chance of a future? Or that he could never be happy? Even if he does not get a headstart with his education, that does not mean there wouldn't be other and even better options later down the line. He may not be able to go to an elite university such as Oxford, but he still has plenty of opportunities to make his life and his career work for him.

I think he'll do better with the pressure being off, even if it means he won't be going to the same school as his friends. And not all of his friends might pass the test either, especially if it's as competitive as you say it is. Not ending up in the same school as your friends is unfortunately a bit of a right of passage.

@Curlewwoohoo " They're clinging on at a wildlife site adjacent to my town."

Feel free to ignore-but does it begin with E?

Op the fact that the state schools on offer are poor doesn’t make him any more suited to a grammar school. I live in a borough that still has grammar schools, the pressure is intense. Be realistic about your child and make the best of it

I just wish that all these kids didn’t have to be labelled failures at 10.

“I failed the eleven plus”. I’ve heard that said sadly by so many adults throughout their lives right up to sixties and seventies. It stays with them.

Why do you think schools with richer parents will automatically be better? Schools can deliver the same level of education whatever their intake if they have the right resources.

I think we need more grammars but we also need more of all different types of school and it should be from year 9. We need middle schools and then high schools. By year 9 it’s clear what kids prefer and what they are good at. Technical schools, sports colleges, apprentice routes etc. I think we should scrap everything and start again from scratch with a system that values everyone- not just those who are academic and do well in exams.

In our local supermarket there is a place where children can be tutored for either the 11+ or general education. Can’t think what it’s called but it’s always full of primary kids in the early evenings and at weekends.

Is there anywhere like that near you? The work is done on computers so might seem more fun than working through a book?

Have to say I think competition this year will be really high as the VAT on indie schools will out price some parents and they will turn to grammars if they think they have a chance.

If your DS is very bright is it worth applying for a bursary at an indie? I know there’s the whole thing about VAT at the moment but if the local comps aren’t good enough then that may be an option.

The other thing you could do is have a look around the comps (open days/evenings?) to help give you an ideas of which may be the best option if the 11+ isn’t passed. You never know, you might be surprised.

This is an interesting idea. A bit like the old University / Technical college system before they turned everything into universities.

@StressyStressHead I totally hear you. I'm sat on holiday on the balcony while ds does a practice paper. It's crap.

It's my third time doing it and ds is actually fine and has basically arranged his own study schedule. It still feels rubbish though.

It wasn't like this with my last child that did it though she sounds a little like your ds. She did pass and is about to go into year 9. When I've asked her if it was worth it and if she would do it again she has said yes 100% she loves her school and is flying academically.

Agree with this. We need more choice and options to best suit each child

And tell me which schools are more likely to have the right resources when 1 set of parents have the spare money to help support the schools but another set of parents don't?

Which is where the government can come in to support schools who need it. Better off parents will always ensure their children have more help/opportunities anyway. No need for the state to help them. Grammars aren’t accessible to the less well off anymore.

They 'can' but will they? Any government can do anything however Labour aren't promising to increase funding in any meaningful way are they?