To think these riots are about anti-muslim feeling more than immigration....

[SaltAndVinegar2]

...and to wonder what the rioters actually think the solution is?

I mean there are plenty of Christian immigrants and no-one is attacking churches. Inner city churches are often mostly made up of ethnic minority and immigrant people

Just watched Ed Balls interview with Zarah Sultana.
ZS: "it's important to call out these riots for being islamophobic because mosques and muslims are being targetted"
EB: "do you agree we need to control immigration"
followed by constant interruption and not allowing her to actually say anything. He came across terribly. There have been 8000 complaints about this interview!

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/ed-balls-gmb-zarah-sultana-riots-b2591311.html

These rioters want to get rid of muslims whether British or immigrant - that is the unpalatable truth. It's not about immigrants in general at all, and only partly about the ones in the hotels. It's scarily reminiscent of what I've read about the early days of the 1930s in germany before Hitler came to power.

I think our tolerance has been why there has historically been hig levels of immigration and asylum attempts (including channel crossings). The near refusal of integration by some Muslims does cause divide. There seems to be not respect for most culture. For instance in France it is the accepted norm for the hijab not to be worn on public arenas such as schools but instead of respecting the French culture of not overtly displaying religious symbols there is outrage that human rights are being sjppressed. We in the UK wouldn't dare to say not wasting hijab in some areas is culturally approriate.

Integration can only be achieved with compromise but there are some Muslims who seem to live here under sufferance befitting economically but holding an internal hatred of our culture and history (including long lasting support of Israel)

Another thing, did anyone watch the BBC news last night? So patronising. The whole thing was the non-news about peaceful ‘counter-protesters’ to the invisible ‘far right’. As someone who has been to many marches over the years, I know that the only thing that tends to be reported is ‘trouble’. So why 15 minutes or so of ‘nothing’ followed by a 30 second glossing over about the Taylor Swift concert threat, followed by a non-news piece about Shamima Begham to make it look like the government is tough on terrorist sympathisers? I said to my husband it was like being offered a ‘Spot the Dog’ picture book to read as an adult - the moralistic storytelling instead of informing the public.

What is the relevance?

Unless you’re genuinely suggesting all Muslims are terrorists I fail to see what you think Muslims living in the UK had to do with an attack in the US 23 years ago.

@Twoboysandabengal

"OceanStorm
Christians are the most persecuted around the world especially in areas with a high Muslim population

Can you back your claims with evidence please?"

Sure:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48146305.amp

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecutionoff_Christians#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20United%20States,concern%22%20by%20the%20United%20States

Same old, I honestly despair.

October the 7th was last year.

Re read the original post.

It was referring to 7 October 2023 not the attacks on the USA 23 years ago!

Can you back your claims with evidence please?

just use a search engine

So you want to ban hijabs?

Is a woman wearing a hijab same as not ’intergrating’ to you?

I ask because I’ve been wondering what people mean by ’integration’.

Having said that I think 9/11 did have a huge impact on our psyche.

Who knows, I'm just trying to understand the rules that people seem to have to live by in the UK if they don't want to be abused. Apparently you have to come from a religion that does nothing wrong, you have to protest and condemn loudly when they do something wrong and according to @FiddlyDiddlyDee the more of you that happens to be of the religion the louder you have protest about the things you haven't done.

Are these rules written down somewhere or do people just have to guess what they have to do if they don't want to be abused?

I meant to quote the poster bringing up 9/11.

Even so I don’t see the relevance of your comment either.

You realise it is actually racist to suggest anyone who shares a race or religion with someone else who carried out a horrible crime is responsible in some way?

This is what blows my mind about the threads on this site that bring up “valid concerns about immigration ” and then they nearly always make a comment like this, which shows it actually isn’t concerns about immigration, it is actually just flat out racism.

And then they get offended because their racism is pointed out.

Im white British and yes I do take responsibility for what TR and other racists say supposedly in my name. I shout loud and clear 'not in my name' and have been on multiple anti racist marches and demonstrations over the years, many straight after terrorist attacks by white people. I think the anti racist demos last night were brilliant and absolutely helped put the racists back in their box.

Would you prefer white people just stayed home shrugged their shoulders and said 'nothing to do with me' while their Muslim (and others) neighbours are attacked by white racists supposedly acting in their name?
Genuine question.

There is a difference between wanting to discuss the threat of Islamic extremism or the move towards medieval values, and having a problem with liberal people who are Muslims and just want to crack on with their lives in the UK. There’s this constant attempt to cast the former as the latter and it really isn’t helping to ease tension, even though I imagine it is the intention.

@mids2019

what do you mean by this??
What does the hijab have to do with integration? and why should I, as a muslim compromise my hijab to be seen as more british?
Do you think the same of people of other faiths who wear religious symbols too? Or is it just the hijab that you have an issue with?
Your posts don't come across very well at all

Dear me, OP, whatever makes you think the rioters want a solution? They are just the toy soldiers of Farage, Yaxley et al. Disorder and chaos is the aim. Anti Muslim, anti immigrant, it doesn't matter in their eyes. If the rioters were told all black cats belong to witches who want to harm you, they'd be killing cats and burning old women instead. Rational thought does not apply.

@Buddysbunda so you don’t have an opinion on my reply to you? Fair enough.

No one should be abused obviously but it’s not rocket science that people link things, it’s human nature particularly when motivated by fearI have Irish family, there was much anti-Irish sentiment here during the height of the Troubles. My uncle was stopped every single time as a frequent flier between London & Dublin. As a Catholic I acknowledge the Catholic Church has done some shocking things.

Yes. Ever since them we need to do tedious, time-consuming security checks everywhere- in airports, going to gigs, etc. There is this fear, way beyond what people felt when there was the threat from the IRA.

Or is it only Muslims who should feel responsible for the actions of others?

No Izzymoon Jews here and elsewhere in the diaspora are, and have been, held responsible for what Israel does.

I think the anti racist demos last night were brilliant and absolutely helped put the racists back in their box.

Yep.

@RainyWoodland I don’t understand your comment. Why would there be less fear?

That's not true, they haven't. We haven't seen one comment from the chief rabbi in the UK nor the Jewish board of deputies condemning some of the atrocities committed by the Israeli army nor the killing of the British aid workers.

@idontwannabeanythingotherthanwhativebeentrynabe

In France there are bans on hijab in certain forums such as schools as part of the French constitutional element of separation of church and state. I think people living in France should respect this and it would in my mind be successful integration i.e. respecting the laws and norms of my body country

I would not expect to go to Iran and wander around in a crop top and shorts, beer in hand munching a bacon sandwich with a LGBT badge. There may be a bit of a response to this failure to observe cultural norms?

I do think this fact about British Jews is very overlooked.

Also, Islam /muslim is a religion not a race/ethnic background. Too many posters on this thread are conflating the two.

Also, Islam /muslim is a religion not a race/ethnic background. Too many posters on this thread are conflating the two.

Thats true