To think these riots are about anti-muslim feeling more than immigration....

[SaltAndVinegar2]

...and to wonder what the rioters actually think the solution is?

I mean there are plenty of Christian immigrants and no-one is attacking churches. Inner city churches are often mostly made up of ethnic minority and immigrant people

Just watched Ed Balls interview with Zarah Sultana.
ZS: "it's important to call out these riots for being islamophobic because mosques and muslims are being targetted"
EB: "do you agree we need to control immigration"
followed by constant interruption and not allowing her to actually say anything. He came across terribly. There have been 8000 complaints about this interview!

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/ed-balls-gmb-zarah-sultana-riots-b2591311.html

These rioters want to get rid of muslims whether British or immigrant - that is the unpalatable truth. It's not about immigrants in general at all, and only partly about the ones in the hotels. It's scarily reminiscent of what I've read about the early days of the 1930s in germany before Hitler came to power.

As I mentioned anti semitism has risen more than any other form of hatred. In the UK Jewish people gave to have guards at their schools all the time.

The tropes that are regularly spoken on mn contintue.

Yes. And there's no group such as "far right" that are being held responsible.

I think it is about Islamophobia. And race.

But I would say that there are some solutions to the narratives that are coming out about two tier, preferment etc. We need a very good look at what the State says and does. It needs imo to be explicitly secular. Schools, police, courts, etc. I believe that in reality it already is. But the perception is not, and the law does not make that very clear. I would say that it should. That view is based on the JR on the Micheala school. Why was it litigated at all?

None of the above excuses the far right who will never be satisfied short of all non whites leaving the UK. But the message about equal application of the law and what is expected needs looking at. It currently gives grist to these people.

Firstly to assume that someone posting is white is a huge assumption to make.

Many people are clear and call out things they don't agree with.

Since you mention it, there was a huge protest in Dublin against IRA bombings in London. 'Not in our name'.

We have just seen many months of protests every weekend which were people saying they didn't agree with something.

Everyone has a responsibility to say 'not in my name' unless to do so puts their lives at risk eg if living in NI in the 70's / 80's I could see why it might not be safe to protest about the actions of paramilitary groups.

@Opine

"At this current time I’d say no one else in the world is hated more than Muslims."

Which would be factually incorrect.

The most persecuted religion in the world today is Christianity:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48146305.amp

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cdp-2024-0017/#:~:text=Around%20365%20million%20Christians%20are,worldwide%20in%202021%20(PDF).

Muslim.majority countries in the world are patriarchal, autocratic, misogynist and suppress human rights at a number of levels e.g. homlsexuality. There are aspects of Christianity that have historically had the same nature but as we become a lot less religious and much less willing to follow religious dogma then there are concerns about a religion which may bring these attitudes back in the West.

This in no way excuse hatred or violence as seen recently but I think there has to be a space to discuss what the impact on British society will be with current demographic trends as immigration levels. I think there is always going to be a tension when you have two peoples living parallel lives with distinct cultural values converging on cities. Cultures from an anthropological point of view always want to dominate others.

We had evidence of cultural disconnect leading to horrendous consequences with the Rotherham grooming gangs and the lack of initial action due to a wish for nothing to stoke community tensjons.

We need a space to discuss these issues without Islamaphobia being used as a term to shut down any debate about Islam in the UK. Riots can never be condoned and the perpetrators of hate crimes are rightly punished .....however we cannot and shouldn't suppress the concerns of some about the nature of British society and how integration is best achieved (in my view a lack of integration and lack of respect of host culture is a problem in some areas).

Not so sure about that last comment. Currently Jews are the most hated people in the world, due to Israel/Gaza. Here in the UK, at the moment, it is Muslims who are bearing the brunt of racists' hate.

I think some people just hate. They’ll hate people who have more money, better houses, easier lives and this extends to people of a different colour, culture, religion. If you’re not white, wear different clothes and have a better life than them that’s their heads exploded. They’ve probably never met, ate with, talked with anyone who doesn’t look like themselves. Their lives are narrow, their minds even narrower.
Joining a lot of other people, mostly men, shouting, making a noise, making fires ( that’s the caveman coming out right there)and as they see it “ getting one over on (whoever, they don’t really care)” makes them feel better about their own limited abilities and lives.
We Can look for deep sociological, economical and political motives but people are pretty basic and this is the most basic on our streets right now.

A protest is not the same as feeling responsible which is what the original comment.
There have been numerous anti racism protests in response to the original riots, so why the suggestion that other Muslims aren’t doing enough?

Well it's quite relevant to discuss why islamaphobia is happening. As a Muslim I can appreciate why this sentiment is happening. I'm not going to ignore the fact that extremists across the world use the religion to spread hate and acts of violent against non Muslims, takings it's teachings and interpreting the. wrongly.

Right so seeing as some are determined to pull antisemitism into this, you and the posters that agree with you are as understanding about why antisemitism is on the rise seeing as extremists are using the religion to spread hate and commit acts of violence against non Jews? Maybe it's that Jews aren't condemning and protesting hard enough is that it?

Islamophobia is very prevalent in the UK, especially in areas where there are large Muslim communities- mainly of Pakistani origin. I live in one such area and the behaviour of some sectors of the Muslim community is what causes the fear. There is a culture amongst the young men for groups driving round in the evenings at high speed, driving dangerously with windows down and music blasting, then parking up and hanging round in large groups near parks and beauty spots, dealing drugs etc. It is intimidating for the locals who live there and for anyone wanting to take a nice evening stroll. Much of the crime in the local area is committed by Asian men and recently fatal stabbings, burglary and car theft have been committed by Asian men- some travelling into town from nearby cities to commit crime. Of course there is crime from white men too but proportionately less and not in the name of religion.

Coupling this with the terrorism we have seen committed in the name of Islam then it is no wonder that people are wary of Muslims.

It is a real shame for the many decent and lovely Muslim people we have in this country, but whilst we still see incidents like the one involving the teacher in Batley, who is still living in hiding, we will not be able to tackle Islamophobia successfully.

They'd have to campaign over 10x as hard if you want to make a comparison like this, seeing as there's so few of them around. It's not like it's a rapidly expanding minority in the UK.

It is understandable that in a close knit community you cannot really speak out against other members of that community. But if the community is being misrepresented by the actions of a few, and wants to close ranks rather than say they disagree, then the community needs to effectively address the extremism from the inside. And rightly or wrongly, if they are not seen to address it, the impression given will be that they secretly agree. And as you say - a proportion do secretly agree. Other posters think I am being unreasonable (but having read their other posts on other threads they are generally critical and goady) but I am saying - where there is an issue, it needs addressing, for the sake of everyone to find a peaceful path forwards.

No Sikhs or Hindus were plotting to bomb the Taylor Swift concert in Vienna.

I'm sorry, but I still struggle to get past the horrors of October 7th.

This too. Or 9/11 or 7/7.

Well yes, i think that there is a strong anti Muslim/cultural aspect. It's a religion/culture with aspects which are at odds with some of the values that we hold of importance in this country. Freedom of speech, freedom of sexuality and womens' rights. Also, the other objections are overcrowding, unplanned provision, poverty of those coming in illegally and therefore the propensity of them to turn to crime as a result (with young males being more subscepticle). I have many friends of differing ethnicities, some born in this country and some not, but we all share the same values and similar educations, particularly with regards to the rights of women. Many people in this country enjoy a good standard of living and freedoms that they don't want to see eroded by religion or by countries with less westernised standards. And I would argue that there is nothing wrong with that. Although a "Christian country", our religion has become very diluted, which i think is a good thing.

Not sure what you are even implying here. It is currently about Muslims and no one else!! Why were they protesting outside mosques and when the fake news leaked about the perpetrator being Muslim, it sparked all this. Please wake up and call it out for what it is!

This is why these attacks are so destructive. I wish these knuckleheads would stop trying to take matters into their own hands and making it worse for everyone.

“Muslim.majority countries in the world are patriarchal, autocratic, misogynist and suppress human rights at a number of levels e.g. homlsexuality. There are aspects of Christianity that have historically had the same nature but as we become a lot less religious and much less willing to follow religious dogma then there are concerns about a religion which may bring these attitudes back in the West.

This in no way excuse hatred or violence as seen recently but I think there has to be a space to discuss what the impact on British society will be with current demographic trends as immigration levels.
I think there is always going to be a tension when you have two peoples living parallel lives with distinct cultural values converging on cities. Cultures from an anthropological point of view always want to dominate others.”

i agree with this.
I can't help worrying about the large numbers of lone young single men entering the UK with mediaeval attitudes to women, who don't wish to integrate and will not embrace the culture of the country they are settling in.

Live and let live works to an extent but historically cultures (
have the horrible but almost inevitable need to dominate each other. May Muslims I have spoken to tacitly wish to be in a more Islamic society and with our the ability to set cultural norms and law to allow this then they will.always feel as not being able to practice their religion fully and feel oppressed or outsiders.

I think it is this wish for a different society that raises fear from Westerners with liberal values.

Right so seeing as some are determined to pull antisemitism into this, you and the posters that agree with you are as understanding about why antisemitism is on the rise seeing as extremists are using the religion to spread hate and commit acts of violence against non Jews? Maybe it's that Jews aren't condemning and protesting hard enough is that it?

So we are acknowledging that Jews globally are getting blamed for the actions of the Israeli government hence the rise in antisemitism. But there’s no relationship between terror attacks & increasing Islamophobia ? Or am I misunderstanding this post?

Can you back your claims with evidence please?

the behaviour of some sectors of the Muslim community is what causes the fear. There is a culture amongst the young men for groups driving round in the evenings at high speed, driving dangerously with windows down and music blasting, then parking up and hanging round in large groups near parks and beauty spots, dealing drugs etc.

You’ve just decided a large percentage of young men between 17 and probably 24 up and down the country, not Muslim behaviour.

That goes on everywhere, in many areas it’s white, in some it’s Muslim.

This is exactly what people mean when they point out the racism and prejudice, there are a number of people who take any negative seen by any Muslim individual and attach it to a whole sector of people. It’s stupid and xenophobic.