To think the anti-immigrations have BEEN "heard"?

[dropoutin]

I posted something like this on one of the riot threads but it ws locked soon after.

Is anyone else getting really bored of people justifying racism, terror, violence and destruction by insisting how important it is that those who imagine asylum seekers are responsible for the country's problem are "heard".

Little reminder: It's exactly that particular obsession that led to the Brexit referendum in 2016, and the most radical - and destructive - political change of recent times.

There were several years in which the country barely discussed anything else. Farage and Johnson got to tell you in great detail how the reason you're poor is because of the black family down the road. And you got the choice of believing them, or not. You even got to make Johnson PM so he could "get Brexit done" and "level up" your community.

You've been taken for a ride. Asylum seekers rriving irregularly (via small boats etc) make up less than 5% of total immigration, which is coming down after peaking in 2022 (partly due to the Ukraine war, and other factors). Neither Tories nor Labour are going to radically reduce immigration because anyone having to ACTUALLY run the country can see that doing so will exacerbate the demographic time-bomb, reduce economic activity and decimate the NHS. You're poor because of 14 years of Conservative economic policy, not because of anyone's skin colour or passport.

Meanwhile: How many of us get to have a national referendum tailored around our favourite policy hobbyhorse? When is my referendum on industrial relations? On housing and land ownership? On the House of Lords? When do I get to be "heard"? Being heard doesn't mean everyone has to agree with you, or that you get to go out and beat up brown people because things aren't working out the way you imagined they would.

It's not that you haven't been heard. It's just that you were wrong.

@Ponoka7 if anything I'd say the growing ageing population is the issue, not immigration. We have millions upon millions of people living longer and requiring more care etc., but when you point that out you're labelled as an ageist

Thank you

Sensible post

Exactly, I think that is what people are frightened of.

Are you talking about the Harehills riot?

If so, you might like to learn your geography.

Harehills was also not "entirely Asian men" (large continent there, which area of Asia are we talking about?)

It was unrest that started because a Romanian family had their children taken into care, and quickly descended into chaos attended by all races and religions.

I don't need to go on YouTube. I saw the rioters in my city with my own eyes, showing racist slogans and doing Nazi salutes. I know what they stand for because they make it abundantly clear.

And anyone that chooses to align themselves with people like that...well, they make their own position quite clear as well.

The problem with asylum seekers is that the tories have left huge numbers of people languishing in hotels, barracks and barges, spending millions of pounds to house them for long periods of time rather than actually processing their applications. If they'd cracked on with processing people, they could have been accepting those who are genuine and deporting those who aren't but they just.. didn't.

That's not the fault of the asylum seekers.

I live very near to a site hosting a large number of asylum seekers/immigrants. Never had any problems with any of them, theyre very polite and respectful. Id far rather walk past a group of them than a group of white men - ive only ever been assaulted and harassed by white men.

The immigrant men near me have nothing to do, which is a shame - they're not allowed to engage in any kind of paid or voluntary work while being processed. I'm sure getting their application processed and getting them into work sooner would assist in them being able to integrate. But that is not their fault.

Irregular immigration

Not sure the recent election tells us anything about priorities. Given Labour's small share of the vote it seems to have been a negative vote against the Conservatives for those that bothered to turn up. I did vote but only because I felt I had to as women have died for us to have that right. I wasn't enthusiastic though.

Looking at the share, it was 34% Labour to 14% Reform which is interesting. That will close by the next election unless the government get a grip on immigration.

Immigration has gone on - well for ever - even the word England is a nod to the immigrants and invaders of the past

But over recent years why is it violence now?

What has triggered this?

Seems to me that the riots are as much about causing trouble for the country as protesting against immigration- let's face it immigration in sone of the areas that are rioting is small - and keir seems to be coming in for a lot of smears - which given he hasn't been responsible for the current levels of immigration seems - interesting

I think these are motivated and agitated for by people who don't really care about the country but want an ultra right wing place to live in

That won't help the people who feel disenfranchised by the previous governments, who feel they should be heard and respected, who want decent homes and jobs

It distracts from the process of improving this country, takes funding away from improving the country

Do your own research its not up to us to educate you. My advice is don't just research on the msm (I've been told on mumsnet that msm is a far right term but hey ho). My experience is I lived in a lovely united diverse well run country with good public services and housing in 2000 and 10 million extra people later its a divided angry financially bankrupt high crime/terrorism country with bad public services and no hope of my children getting housing. And yes I do link the two, I don't care what blinkered middle class public people who mainly work in the public sector on mumsnet think.

Obesity is a definite problem but you are not allowed to mention it. How many threads do you get on Mumsnet where someone says they are worried about a family member s weight and should they say something about it? They are immediately shot down as fat shamers and told not to say anything because they will give the person in question life long food issues.

But I digress, this is not what this thread is about.

I would say the vote showed that people wanted the tories out and didn't want reform in either

The vote was a clear signal to go left not right from the right wing tories

These are the reasonings that justified Brexit - UK government blamed all in n immigration not on ongoing and historic lack of investment on public services, “ The average UK-based migrant from Europe contributed approximately £2,300 more to UK public finances in 2016/17 than the average UK adult. In comparison, each UK born adult contributed £70 less than the average, and each non-European migrant contributed over £800 less than the average.“ www.oxfordeconomics.com/resource/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-on-the-uk/#

There is a head in the sand element over this and has been fur a while

As much as mn will talk about percentages etc there is a destabilisation which we are seeing now that Is incredibly costly in many ways

I would prefer a policy approach that is more stabilising

No matter how you try to spin it, immigration doesn't appear to have been the highest priority for the majority of voters. You might not like that, but that's democracy.

Do you think they regret coming here?

Again whilst the thugs are bloody thick and make us all look bad by looting a bloody shoe shop, can I ask your view on the Manchester airport situation?

That was a huge incident where the family and their so called "TikTok lawyer' couldn't wait to shout racism. They even went as far as to suggest the police attempted to "assassinate" one of the brothers due to bias.

There was riots outside GMP station.

Yet when the full footage was leaked, these so called hard done by brothers were seen engaging in some of the most horrific violence against two female and one male officer I've seen.

In some airports around the world, the situation would've ended up with both of them shot.

Should that officer have stamped on him? No of course not, but it wasn't done due to racism or an excuse to kick a guy because of his skin colour, it was done because his colleagues were injured viciously with one woman officer bleeding from a broken nose.

And there's the issue. The ones who cannot wait to put everything as racism.

I know Muslims and Sikhs and people who have come from West Indian and Jamaican heritage and they get just as pissed off as we do, if not more, because people like that family lead to people thinking that everyone is like that in the community.

Hence why Rotherham happened because agencies being scared of being called racist.

My experience is I lived in a lovely united diverse well run country with good public services and housing in 2000 and 10 million extra people later its a divided angry financially bankrupt high crime/terrorism country with bad public services and no hope of my children getting housing

10 million extra people and 14 years of Tory rule, a chronic lack of investment in infrastructure and industry and Thatcher selling off council houses.

I wonder which of those made the most difference?

Office of national statistics. In 2023, the number was 557,000 UK residents LEFT the UK via immigration to live abroad. The figures people are quoting about immigration are not taking into consideration many other factors. In 2023 death rate was also higher than birth rate. I think that long term (14 years) of lack of housing and funding to our services, including mental health, should not be put solely to blame on immigration. The reform party should support the new government not undermine it in a way that flames the fire of civil unrest in the country. It's disgusting.

(I think the riots are appalling and the people rioting - whoever they may be - are criminal)

That said, there's a voice in the middle that's drowned out by the criminals.

Instead of the rhetoric from the politicians only discussing the criminals, someone needs to say to the others 'we hear you and will discuss your concerns'. And then they actually do need to discuss them - regardless of the outcome.

Instead of it being about opposing sides, we need to find a way of making things work for all.

No we are no being listened to.
We have allowed people into the UK with no checks on who they actually are. That isn't legal immigration. It's people taking advantage of us because we are a soft touch. We are not even allowed to deport foreign rapists and murderers because they won't be safe in their own countries. What about our safety? Look what happened when a bunch of virtue signallers prevented the deportation of a convicted rapist. He was freed to offend again. Why weren't these people dragged off the plane in handcuffs and put in front of a court?
Are we being listened to? No we are not.

This is what angers me. They do these despicable acts in the name of “protecting women and children”, without a thought that women are statistically FIFTEEN times more like to suffer sexual assault at the hands of a white man than an Asian man.

It sickens me that they feel entitled to speak for us. We need protection from ALL men. To have them spouting that we’re scared to walk the streets (because of the threat from Muslim men) when in actual fact it’s them that we fear, makes me so angry.

Grooming gangs come from all races unfortunately but for some reason people seem more offended by the ones where the perpetrator has Brown skin
You are missing the point spectacularly! It is the fact that the police turned a blind eye to the Asian gangs doing it for many years. Two-tier policing,that is what people are angry about!

You don’t think that police turn a blind eye to sex assaults by white men?? You’re deluded!

Blair had 13 long years to reverse Thatxhers right to buy policy.
But he didnt