To think the anti-immigrations have BEEN "heard"?

[dropoutin]

I posted something like this on one of the riot threads but it ws locked soon after.

Is anyone else getting really bored of people justifying racism, terror, violence and destruction by insisting how important it is that those who imagine asylum seekers are responsible for the country's problem are "heard".

Little reminder: It's exactly that particular obsession that led to the Brexit referendum in 2016, and the most radical - and destructive - political change of recent times.

There were several years in which the country barely discussed anything else. Farage and Johnson got to tell you in great detail how the reason you're poor is because of the black family down the road. And you got the choice of believing them, or not. You even got to make Johnson PM so he could "get Brexit done" and "level up" your community.

You've been taken for a ride. Asylum seekers rriving irregularly (via small boats etc) make up less than 5% of total immigration, which is coming down after peaking in 2022 (partly due to the Ukraine war, and other factors). Neither Tories nor Labour are going to radically reduce immigration because anyone having to ACTUALLY run the country can see that doing so will exacerbate the demographic time-bomb, reduce economic activity and decimate the NHS. You're poor because of 14 years of Conservative economic policy, not because of anyone's skin colour or passport.

Meanwhile: How many of us get to have a national referendum tailored around our favourite policy hobbyhorse? When is my referendum on industrial relations? On housing and land ownership? On the House of Lords? When do I get to be "heard"? Being heard doesn't mean everyone has to agree with you, or that you get to go out and beat up brown people because things aren't working out the way you imagined they would.

It's not that you haven't been heard. It's just that you were wrong.

Can you link to where you got those numbers from Scarletrunner. I've googled but only found numbers from the dirstv4 months of the year -

Application for care worker visa have dropped by 76%. Applications for study visa decreased by 12% and applications for dependents of international students fell by 79%.

But - Applications for skilled worker visa were up 41%. Applications for dependents were up 62%. Likely to be a result of rushing to get applications in before the cap rose.

www.ft.com/content/ef67f882-3435-4c53-a00c-e0b7e15a572d

As for suggesting that rioters burning libraries, CAB offices, putting police officers in hospital, dragging people out of their cars and looting shops "have a point" - no disagreeing with the previous Government's policies doesn't provide a free pass for violence on our streets.

Thankfully swiftly arrested and charged. Absolutely shameful.

The irony which the rioters seem unable to see is - they’re angry the government (ie the tax payer) is having to pay money to house and process asylum seekers and refugees. And so their response is to riot which is going to cost the tax payer huge sums of money in terms of policing, trials, prison stays etc.

It makes no logical sense.

I agree with you

But the bad publicity and risk to life means the Gov might actually do something to reduce immigration. To get in a spat with Elon Musk guarantees global interest.

No, that's not what I mean.

People who can't get a house to live in and see all kinds of resources going to non-citizens, particularly economic migrants, don't feel better about having no home because those people are white.

The brown people thing is your obsession, not that of people who are actually facing homelessness or problems with access to medical care. Those people are concerned with real issues in their lives.

You are advocating violence - to a level where there is risk to life - to pressure the government over a political issue? That's not acceptable at all.

I wonder about this approach tbh.

I tend to think that a good approach to skilled immigration involves allowing families, and that in those cases, it's an overall positive to have family groups, and give extended families extra consideration. People with family tend to help each other and settle in better, and then they have family networks that mean people aren't relying on the state.

The worry I think is creating cultural enclaves that do not integrate, but I think that's much less likely when talking about professional/skilled/educated workers.

Net migration was at 685,000 last year.
However, the head of the migration watchdog expects it to fall to 150,000 to 200,000 by September. Thats in line with the 2019 Conservative manifesto commitments of under 240,000.

Not really anything to do with immigration is it. If immigrants are working they can afford, maybe with housing benefit, to rent somewhere to live. If not, like everyone else, they’re dumped into emergency accommodation which is far from cushy. They’re not taking anything off anyone. That person would be jealous of a white Brit or whoever, getting something they aren’t. Maybe blame successive governments who haven’t invested in the infrastructure. The country’s finances shouldn’t be that bad that we can’t afford anything but the bare minimum considering taxes are at their highest in years and we’re supposedly a wealthy nation.
For years the right wing mantra has been to blame wc people of being lazy and feckless. Maybe if they can’t get on the ladder they need to look at themselves rather than blaming immigrants yes ? Or maybe not turn on others who want to make a better life for themselves also.

I'm sorry, you are not making sense.

If you are adding people to the population, you are putting stress on limited housing stock.

That's really basic.

You could reasonably ask why successive governments have not added to housing stock. I think that's a somewhat more complex question than people think - it's become extraordinarily expensive, both real estate and building, there is a lot more attention paid now to issues around land usage, sensitive environments, and so on too.

But whatever we say about what should have been done, right now there is not enough housing and it will take time to get it.

This is assuming too that's the right answer. I think there are some pretty reasonable questions that could be asked about whether increasing population density in the UK is a great idea.

I mean, really, if you can't understand the link between housing and immigration I don't know what to say.

I’m not sure what you’re suggesting tbh. You’ve reduced immigration but if you don’t have enough nurses what do you do in the meantime ? This blaming of immigrants is basically enabling governments to get off the hook for their poor management of the country so things never improve because someone else is always to blame whether it be foreigners, benefit claimants or trans folk. Illegal immigration is tiny compared to legal immigration. If we aren’t training our own what do we do. Oh yeah, cut our noses off to save our faces, a la brexit, the British way.

Where’s the proven link ?

I fully agree with you.
Someone else on this thread or one of the other current ones said it quite well: that when people talk about the UK needing immigrant workers, they often seem to regard those workers as separate units (like individually packaged slices of Kraft cheese), whose sole function it is to fill gaps in the labour market, and not as human beings with their own needs and who also might want to bring their dependents.
Of course, in some cases bringing dependents could stop people from integrating, but I think that’s equally likely to happen with groups of individual workers, specially if they’re here only temporarily, working in badly paid jobs and living in shared accommodation.

You can only build houses if you have enough bricklayers and workers. So who is going to build these houses?
Do we really not have enough people to do some of these jobs like caring and building, or do we just not have enough people willing to do these jobs? Or are they just too badly paid compared to other jobs/getting state benefits? Why not invest in training and paying local people extra money and benefits to do the shortage jobs?

How would you persuade a U.K. gov to reduce immigration?
Please list your suggestions …..
Both parties have been promising to for 25 years -or longer -still it increases year on year.

What other policies should be decided by rioting?

So you approve of rioting?

Wow.

You mean, maths?

If you add more people to the population, you need more homes.

Good suggestion

I know for a fact that the construction courses are well attended locally so I'm not sure what is going wrong?

I agree practical courses in FE should be prioritised to build up skills sets - but budgets have been cut over the last decade. Admittedly 6th form colleges have borne the brunt of that. But an increased push would be beneficial for the longer term.

The issue is growing inequality- the gap between the richest and poorest has widened over the last 50 years. We have a super rich class who have been buying assets and that's why living standards aren't rising. The money is sitting in their assets not circulating in the economy.

By all means we can cut immigration and train up people to do lower paid NHS jobs - but we have to think creatively about where the money to pay them better wages is coming from. You're a net contributor when you earn over 40k. We will take more immigrants to higher skilled jobs earning 40k+. It's literally just rearranging deckchairs until we tax the super rich.

Because reducing it to the levels you want is economically disastrous, unless businesses are prepared to start training up native Brits to do certain jobs. Sadly you lot keep voting in governments that aren’t prepared to encourage said companies to play their part, Tory governments being so enthralled to free market capitalism.

Absolutely true @dropoutin