To think the anti-immigrations have BEEN "heard"?

[dropoutin]

I posted something like this on one of the riot threads but it ws locked soon after.

Is anyone else getting really bored of people justifying racism, terror, violence and destruction by insisting how important it is that those who imagine asylum seekers are responsible for the country's problem are "heard".

Little reminder: It's exactly that particular obsession that led to the Brexit referendum in 2016, and the most radical - and destructive - political change of recent times.

There were several years in which the country barely discussed anything else. Farage and Johnson got to tell you in great detail how the reason you're poor is because of the black family down the road. And you got the choice of believing them, or not. You even got to make Johnson PM so he could "get Brexit done" and "level up" your community.

You've been taken for a ride. Asylum seekers rriving irregularly (via small boats etc) make up less than 5% of total immigration, which is coming down after peaking in 2022 (partly due to the Ukraine war, and other factors). Neither Tories nor Labour are going to radically reduce immigration because anyone having to ACTUALLY run the country can see that doing so will exacerbate the demographic time-bomb, reduce economic activity and decimate the NHS. You're poor because of 14 years of Conservative economic policy, not because of anyone's skin colour or passport.

Meanwhile: How many of us get to have a national referendum tailored around our favourite policy hobbyhorse? When is my referendum on industrial relations? On housing and land ownership? On the House of Lords? When do I get to be "heard"? Being heard doesn't mean everyone has to agree with you, or that you get to go out and beat up brown people because things aren't working out the way you imagined they would.

It's not that you haven't been heard. It's just that you were wrong.

'the state's main obligation is to the security of its people. That means knowing who is here'

Totally agree and now these terrorist thugs have shown their true colours, let's strip them of their citizenship, put them in a flimsy rubber dinghy and set them onto the ocean, preferably with a prevailing wind towards the furthest distant land mass. Would represent a significant saving to the tax payer who will otherwise be funding their stay in prison and halt all the associated costs which will be borne by the rest of us as a result of their looting, thieving and destruction. I bet even the sharks wouldn't want to eat them, they are so toxic.

For goodness sake. 100 riots are planned across our country and there is still someone pedalling false statistics to stir up hatred. False narratives got us here where do you want to go now
? All our safety is compromised by these nazis - whatever your colour the chaos they will bring impacts us all .

Has Yvette Balls Cooper made good her promise of taking some refugees into her home yet, as she publicly stated she would?
And if not, why not?

Yes, it would be much better if we had UK stats for migrants that match the Swedish and German data, but we don't. The data was for rape of adult women, so I was sticking to that. I agree the stats for paedophilia are concerning, but I could equally have picked the stats for sexual assault on a female in which non white men seem be much more disproportionately represented.

Well, we can agree on that at least. A proper analysis would also have to take into account things like culture and how likely people are to report assaults and all sorts of other factors. I would really like to see well collected and analysed data across the board, but here in the UK we seem to be particularly lax in collecting it and it is very open to interpretation. (Indeed those Swedish researchers only found what they did by accident - and they were threatened with prosecution if they published it. And one of them was an immigrant themselves.)

I agree!

They've been heard extensively, they just don't like the answer

Since you asked. One of the 1st things that comes to my mind when I think of our 'British Culture' vs Middle Eastern culture is that in our Western culture, females aren't seen and treated as sub-human compared to males...

That a good enough example for you??

My Muslim female friends would be extremely offended to hear you say they're treated as sub-human. They all have good careers (I know Muslim female doctors, lawyers), they themselves choose whether to wear the hijab. Some do and some don't. They are devout Muslims and their faith comes first which means they may live differently to you - but they are most definitely not treated as sub-humans. They are strong, independent women. It's these kind of sweeping statements that cause a lot of prejudice and mistrust.

I have had as many British white people show me a lack of respect as immigrants

Actually that's a lie

I have had more problems with white english men than any other people

working in a tech field I have seen a lot of sexism

I also think comments like that shows a limited understanding of Middle Eastern culture to". Yes the culture is often women in the home - that's true or many English men also - but there is a slightly greater respect for a woman in the home than is often shown to SAHM in this culture

So nothing is ever as simple as simple people would like

Are they in the U.K. or the Middle East? If the latter which country?

Some ME countries would make this possible others wouldn’t

I hate Nazi scum and hate farage and don’t think these protests should have happened. I live in Dewsbury a big Muslim area. While I agree I have spoke to many who say it’s a choice I do believe there are pressures to wear stuff to. Thee was a documentary called brown girl white girl based in Dewsbury and the young lady I felt didn’t want to wear the hijab but dad was rather controlling and the community put pressure like they would shun her. They may not outright say stuff but three a lot of pressure. Now my Muslim carer doesn’t wear nothing but my issue is why is it these old books say a woman should cover the hair because of modesty because men can’t control them selves. That to me is really wrong. So my argument is sure some Muslim women say they have a choice but esp round here it must be difficult to be individual when you have a big community pressure. Around here you see a lot with the nicab on full face veil which annoys me as all face coverings should be banned then we wouldn’t have the idiots wearing balaclavas. Ireland just banned balaclavas for protests we’ll ban face coverings to

They're in the UK - but the poster was talking about British Culture vs Middle Eastern Culture, as if to say the two are not compatible. I know many Muslims here in Leeds and I can't see any ways in which they're not integrating or in which their faith is somehow incompatible with British culture. They're hardworking, they do a lot for the wider community, women are not treated as sub-human. They mix freely with British people and live good lives. They're not demanding Sharia law. They just want to live in peace and raise their families.

Same for some in Dewsbury hre in fact the local mosques I believed raised money for a scanner in pinderfields hospital so that’s good.

The problem is not with individual Muslims who like all groups will be completely different from person to person. The problem is with the religion and the cultures of the countries where it dominates, which are always anti-women, anti-gay anti-democracy and anti-liberty. Try and name one Islamic country which is not any one of these. It's not possible because they all are, that's why the religion causes tension and co flict wherever it goes. It's why Pakistan is separate from India, they used to be one cou try but the conflict between Muslims and the more peaceful Hindu population wad too big. Have you seen the middle east? Literally a hot-spot of conflict of all kinds and guess which religion dominates.

Yes, I'm sure there is some community pressure in some places. Not amongst the Muslim women I know but I'm sure it exists. But don't forget there is also pressure on Muslim men to live a good Muslim life. Exactly the same pressures to conform exist amongst other communities: Jews, devout Christians, Hindus etc. There was a lot of pressure on my Hindu husband for example. I also had a friend from a very religious Christian family and she was quite restricted in what she could and couldn't do.

Sure, this can all be looked at and discussed in a calm, rational way. Absolutely nothing excuses the hate and violent racist attacks on Muslims. They are utterly abhorrent, frightening and have no place in our society. I know you agree with this too.

I'm pleased for your female Muslim friends, it sounds like they live a life free from oppression and inequality. But that's not true for all/the majority of Muslim women is it? (FYI- you specifically mentioned Muslims) Specifically, the numerous groups of Muslim women I saw on a South-coast beach recently on a 32°c day, who were clad head to toe in a black Burqa, only a small slit over the eyes and with leggings underneath. While their husbands wore Bermuda shorts while splashing around with the children. Female children too, wearing 'normal' swimming costumes who'll likely one day be the ones completely clad in black on the beach. That seemed to make the sense of oppression worse to me, seeing the little girls who'll one day have to live by very different rules.

Everyone's opinions will be different depending on their experience of life in this country
Someone living on a council estate, will have an entirely different experience to someone living in the suburbs

And one thing we can see, from the clothes price and wage discissions is that everyone on here is super rich and earns 60k so i assume not many live on council estates

Yes but people living here follow our rules. I don't know a single Muslim who's arguing against British laws, complaining about gay rights, democracy or liberty.
Regarding India, Pakistan and the problems in the middle east (particularly between Israel and Palestine) - if you know your history you'll know the British and the United Nations were heavily involved in all these areas and may be responsible for some of the issues that have arisen since then.

@Sitdownrosa

"Italy doesn't have a culture" is something that could be said by either someone who derides Italy, or by an Italian. It's quite a chauvinist statement: what we do isn't a culture, it's just normal.

Have you ever lived anywhere but the UK?

@Daltonbear1

Yes I was moaning because there will be people just above the threshold who probably started work at 16 and are poor and need that money

I'd rather they got their fuel allowance than someone who was described upthread as having 8 dc and hadn't worked in his country of origin and needed social service involvement

How is he an asset to the UK

He won't be the only one

@Sitdownrosa and yet the ones in the hotels near me are nothing but trouble makers, full of Albanian men mostly, vandalism, following young kids around in play parks, taking photos of young kids, grabbing teen girls and sticking their tongues down their throats was the latest in the court files etc what is to be done about that?

If i saw any of that going on id call the police.

Have you actually seen any of that happen with your own eyes? Did you call the police?

I don't understand why we can't deport the Albanians

They are not in fear of their lives or need to be here