To think the anti-immigrations have BEEN "heard"?

[dropoutin]

I posted something like this on one of the riot threads but it ws locked soon after.

Is anyone else getting really bored of people justifying racism, terror, violence and destruction by insisting how important it is that those who imagine asylum seekers are responsible for the country's problem are "heard".

Little reminder: It's exactly that particular obsession that led to the Brexit referendum in 2016, and the most radical - and destructive - political change of recent times.

There were several years in which the country barely discussed anything else. Farage and Johnson got to tell you in great detail how the reason you're poor is because of the black family down the road. And you got the choice of believing them, or not. You even got to make Johnson PM so he could "get Brexit done" and "level up" your community.

You've been taken for a ride. Asylum seekers rriving irregularly (via small boats etc) make up less than 5% of total immigration, which is coming down after peaking in 2022 (partly due to the Ukraine war, and other factors). Neither Tories nor Labour are going to radically reduce immigration because anyone having to ACTUALLY run the country can see that doing so will exacerbate the demographic time-bomb, reduce economic activity and decimate the NHS. You're poor because of 14 years of Conservative economic policy, not because of anyone's skin colour or passport.

Meanwhile: How many of us get to have a national referendum tailored around our favourite policy hobbyhorse? When is my referendum on industrial relations? On housing and land ownership? On the House of Lords? When do I get to be "heard"? Being heard doesn't mean everyone has to agree with you, or that you get to go out and beat up brown people because things aren't working out the way you imagined they would.

It's not that you haven't been heard. It's just that you were wrong.

Well, not 'to date' - plenty of countries have had periods of right wing politics, as we all know.

Yes obviously. Sorry...I should have clarified I'm talking about the post war period as a general view give or take a few exceptions. But thank you for picking up on that.

The Lib Dems are a centre party, so they start from a completely different place in the view of the electorate.

I rather meant their method of targeting seats successfully while having a very small percentage of the overall vote. Successful tactic in our current two party dominant system and one that Reform will try and emulate I suspect.

Reform had 14% of votes cast. Lib Dems had 12%. So however the Lib Dems did it Reform will copy.

You are ignoring the role of the electorate.

How do the Lib Dems do it? In part by being a centre party. Are Reform a centre party? No.

Thank you for correcting me. I'd been very surprised by the numbers.

Are the people rioting really upset about immigration - I'd say in the same way the people rioting in the US and destroying cities and shops about BLM were upset about racialized police violence - many not at all, some probably in a rather unthoughtful way.

But these things tend to feed of the cultural energy, in my experience, whatever the cause.

There are lots of people who are not rioters who are concerned and upset. You can't say people have been heard when they have not had their concerns addressed in a real way. Labour has been pretty much interpreted as being pro-immigration and in a big way - that is perhaps not totally fair but it's the impression certain MPs, media on the left, and LP members have managed to create. And the Tories have nodded their heads and not really done anything.

So, no, they haven't been heard, they still see their communities filled with newcomers while they can't get a doctor or a place to live.

I don't understand your argument. Forgive me. Reform got a fair few more votes than the Lib Dems (despite the Lib Dems being centre left) but only 5 seats compared to 72. The Lib Dems did it by targeting specific seats and campaigning on local issues. What's to stop Reform doing the same. They would clearly do very well in certain seats once they sort themselves out. I'm not advocating for them btw. Just observing and predicting.

Well said👍

But they are using public funds! they are automatically given shelter..

Yes 👍 agree

@ruby1957 totally agree with your post!

Totally Ruby

I don’t quite get it either.
I’d totally understand it if someone was leaving an active war zone in a dinghy. But France?
People might feel they’re not treated well over there and that they’d be better off in the UK.
But actually risk their and their children's lives for that?
Even if they really didn’t want to stay in France, there would be other countries they could reach from there without getting into the dinghies?
PP says those mothers must have been completely desperate, but elsewhere people say refugees might choose the UK over France because they speak some English and might have relatives here.
So that’s more about preferences rather than desperation?

No they’re not. Asylum seekers are given shelter. Illegal immigrants are under the radar, the authorities don’t know they’re here, so they don’t get anything. There is a difference between the two. Asylum seekers are not illegal.

I'm talking about the illegal immigrants who come over in boats! they are definitely given shelter immediately they get here..they are taken to centres to be processed and some end up staying in hotels at the taxpayers expense.

And a great deal of the boat people are fit, healthy young men who are economic migrants from peaceful countries eg Albania, they are not fleeing anything!

You’re describing asylum seekers, who have applied for asylum here. They are NOT illegal. It’s is legal to come and claim asylum. The confusion arises when people refer to them as “illegal immigrants”. They’re not. They’re only illegal immigrants if they get off the boat and scarper, and don’t claim asylum. They don’t receive any government help, because they are illegal.

What you mean is filled with newcomers with brown skin yes ?
They have had 6 years to be heard. The party they voted for has talked about nothing else but immigration. We left the EU because they disliked immigration, the economy has suffered massively because of this decision, we’ve lost freedom of movement, the ability to move and work abroad etc Ironically the east European immigrants have been replaced by those from very different cultures and that’s the rub. Now they’ve turned to British born people of colour but it’s harder to get rid of them.

It was announced today that there has been a drop in visa applications by students, skilled workers and health and care workers from 141,000 to 91,000 due to not allowing them to bring their families.
But no account of who the remaining 559,000 were? or it could be 859,000 depending on who you listen to, 700,000 or 1million.

This obfuscation makes me wonder if the rioters have a point.
Imv this is what annoys/worries people. They should come clean on who is or is not coming into the country - why do they chicken out of telling us.

Whenever anyone complains on here or elsewhere about immmigrants we are fed the line that we need the careworkers - but that number is obviously not who most of them are. We are not getting 700,000 careworkers or our care system would work.

@Scarletrunner - whilst we have a shortage of “care workers”, it is not a skilled job. I could go into care work immediately, whereas if I wanted to be a doctor it would take a large amount of money and years to train me up. https://www.theaccessgroup.com/en-gb/blog/hsc-what-training-and-qualifications-do-care-workers-need/

Care workers should be paid more locally so it becomes a more attractive job for those already here.
If you want to curb immigration, you only let in the really highly skilled and typically a lot of tax paying economic migrant. But you need systems that work and probably ID cards.
Even with students, our unis should be funded by our own Government properly in the first place rather than having people buy their way into the UK via studying there. Again, highly skilled students that stay and pay are great.

These would all be right wing policies though.
Labour need to make sure they come up with something I think or they will be out in a few years. The country is clearly quite right wing or we would not have had Brexit.

Eastern standard
Especially if riots increase and police don’t want the risk“

Not going to happen. Did you somehow miss the footage of tens of thousands of people on the streets telling the racist rioters exactly what they thought of them? And the millions of posts in forums saying thank you, wish I could have gone? They far better reflect the views of the majority of the UK, however much a minority of very unpleasant

people seem to salivate at the prospect of more violence.

@Nobodywouldknow Err? I said Saudi Arabia. You do know that’s not Dubai don’t you? It’s very different and visitors do respect their customs and laws even though they might not like them,

No but given I posted before it happened your point isn’t relevant

’Salivate’ that’s your head alone

Riots are incredibly costly and bad for a country all round. People put you on travel advice lists. No I don’t want that I want calm

It could be “interesting” if they get on the streets together. Hopefully won’t happen but the far left are pretty much up for a fight too. A “peaceful” Councillor in London arrested for inciting murder. Nasty people on both sides.