To ask if you think the Olympic boxers are male?

[ArabellaScott]

The finals for both boxers are tonight and tomorrow.

I'm curious to hear whether people think they are females with a DSD, or males with a DSD.

YABU - they're female
YANBU - they're male

Nope.

https://womenssportspolicy.org/q10-dont-some-healthy-females-produce-testosterone-in-the-male-range/

Which is why other sporting bodies require those competing in women's sports to have T levels under 5 nmol/L.

On the contrary, if a female person has above 5.5 nmol/L they are likely to have a tumour. Between 2.4 - 5.5 nmol/L is not considered a 'healthy' range it is an indication that there is a medical condition such as PCOS. (That is not me saying female people with PCOS are unhealthy so to speak. But an indication that they may need diagnosis and maybe treatment).

These testosterone ranges are not healthy for male people. There are numerous posts on this thread about this.

If a female person has any where near the male range, they are highly like to be gravely ill.

Please read more on this.

Err as pointed out above there most certainly is a RANGE of normal values of testosterone for men and women and they do NOT overlap.

Also I don't have an issue with combat sports personally. I'm quite fond of participating in them, but no one has ever described me as feminine.

Sorry, after an awful lot of searching, I can't find anything on the spat between the IOC guy, who's the former IBA guy. I can't remember where I read it now.

I read it too. I think he had a Chinese name?

Phew! I didn't dream it!

YANBU

A very steady just under one in five think the boxers are women- or at least think we don’t have the right to wonder.

Yes. But just over 4 out of 5 disagree.

I think it’s understandable to not know much about this subject, or to understand testosterone ranges, but it’s best to possibly educate yourself briefly before posting something so obviously wrong.

These numbers weirdly - roughly - correlate with the numbers of female athletes for/against karyotyping in the '90s

It's good to see that at least 80% are compos mentis.

The numbers remind me of some of the polls that are run about should male people be included in female sport too.

Despite some people trying to claim that MN is not representative of the general population.

Even the BBC are starting to notice the protests.

Brava.

Is that an X for X chromosomes?

When is the khalif match, anyone know, and is it in iPlayer?

Yes.

It is the ‘no thank you’ moment for the boxers. If you remember the interview of the women weightlifters after they won refused to answer the question about Hubbard because they were obviously warned not to discuss it.

Friday night at 9.50pm. I suspect it will be on the BBC second feed.

Lin’s fight is Saturday at 8.30pm

@nietzscheanvibe

Many posters who support Khelif will say "but she's not trans", and then they'll say "even if she's XY she's lived as a woman so she should be allowed to compete as a women", ignoring the male biology which confers advantage - this is exactly what transwomen athletes want too, so if we go along with the notion that Khelif is a "woman" (in this context), then we're soon at a point where we're forced to accept that "transwomen are women"; they're not, they're men.

I don't think this is the case at all. Certainly, if proved to be male, Khelif should not be competing in women's boxing. No male should. It doesn't matter if they've "lived as women". The argument pro-Khelif posters are making in that context is Khelif was born a female, grew up female and is female.

...proved to be male...

Are two independent tests, in two independent laboratories, in two different countries not enough for you? Two laboratories which are endorse by the IOC and the ISO, by the way.

Lin didn't bother to appeal, as there were no grounds. Kelife began the process, the IBA paid its share, but Khelife didn't pursue the appeal, as there were no grounds, thus, admitting that them's exclusion was legal.

You cannot possibly know why the two boxers either did not or withdrew their appeals.

The laboratory results are not clear, no. What is required is a chromosomal test completely independent of the IBA and its affliates (and possibly the IOC).

You cannot possibly know why the two boxers either did not or withdrew their appeals.

Oh please. 🙄

Can't have been cost as the IBA were going to pay for the appeals.

Er, what other reasons would there be? Other than that they're male.

It's not just the IBA saying they're male, the WBO and the EBC agree they're male.

This is becoming like "it's turtles all the way down"